Women & religion.

[carrust]

In most religions women are treated like second class citizens.Why?

[jno]

I suspect it has to do with customs that applied at the time the religions were founded - a long time ago and so comparatively primitive and patriarchal, with weird superstitions about menstruation and so on. These superstitions are enshrined in holy books, which conservative believers down the ages insist are eternal holy writ rather than just Middle East practices of 3000 years ago.

[jno]

Just to expand on that, it's likely that the very first deity was the earth mother, worshipped as a fertility goddess responsible for crops as well as children. But as society became more organised and male-dominated, so the gods became more masculine too, and the earth mother has now dwindled (in Christianity) to the Virgin Mary, wife and mother but not really a goddess.

[Greedyfly]

My opinion - this isn't to spark arguments. I have always believed religion is scaremongering and women who are scared of the consequences will do as they are told and not question how they are treated and if they do they wouldn't dare to say anything about it. I have never agreed with religion, I am not against people believing that is there choice but this is mine.

[naz_nomad]

Because they never said sorry for stealing that rib.

[Lonnie]

Its all to do with power, these religous books were written by men for men, and as long as people believe that whats written is the word of god, and can't be changed, women will be nothing but chattels, for the use and disposal of by men.

[crete]

very sweeping statement , it is not my experience with my religions

[jno]

which religions do you have, crete, and how do they look on women?

[JudgeJ]

Many religions treat women badly as carrust suggests, and it�s no use anyone trying to pretend that they do not. Islam is among the greatest perpetrators of such practices. The examples of poor treatment of women among that following are too numerous to mention here.

I have no particular issues with this. If women feel the need to allow themselves to be treated in this way that is their affair. I�ve no desire to tell other people how to live their lives � there are too many people in the world (and in Britain in particular) doing that already.

What I do find strange, however, is the hypocritical way with which such religions (and their practices towards women) are tolerated in this country. If you run a golf club and treat women differently to men by (perhaps) denying them full membership or denying them access to all the facilities offered to men, you are publicly castigated. (Quite why women should want to join a club that treats them in such a way is a mystery to me and another question entirely). The local authority may well refuse to issue you with all the various licences you need and you stand no chance of receiving financial support from any public body. You will have difficulty obtaining planning permission to carry out any improvements or alterations. You may well find yourself prosecuted into the bargain.

If you run a religious building as part of an organisation which, at best treats women as second class citizens and at worst actually oppresses them to the point of bullying, torment and even murder, no such sanctions are applied. Furthermore, no public mention is made of the organisation�s practices. Any private discussion of the topic is actively discouraged and can even lead to prosecution under our various laws introduced to encourage tolerance and diversity. Can anybody tell me why this should be?

[brionon]

Because they are afraid of Sex. Some Saint or other said-''Women are the Gateway to Hell.'' The Three Abraham Religions are the worst. In the Muslim religion a woman has to be owned by a man, Father,Husband,Brother and even Son. And there were no women at the Last Supper.

[felinechums]

Would crete please answer jno's question, as there are a few of us interested in the answer?

[Lonnie]

I'd also like to echo jno's question, your answers would be very interesting.

[vehelpfulguy]

Lets be fair, for centuries women in general have been treated as second class citizens but us men.

When Marie Curie won the Nobel Prize (her first of 2) the Royal Society would only allow men to collect awards. Her husband had to collect the award for her while she sat in the front row.

Many countries only gave women the vote in the 20th century. Britain only gave women the vote after the first world war, and that was to women over 30.

Women did not get equal voting rights until 1928.

We men have a lot to answer for.

[Nemesis9]

It's because, 'generally speaking' women are shallow vacuous creatures, more interested in clothes and make up, and which celebrity is appearing in 'Heat' magazine etc. To expect them to be able to hold positions of power or authority, let alone governance is frankly, dangerous and irresponsible. Men on the other hand are generally more sensible, focused and reliable.

The sooner they get back to cooking our dinners, raising the kids and doing the ironing, the better this world will become for everyone.
Safer to keep them off the roads too, what with the eye liner and lipstick applications when driving. Sheesh!
And lastly, before the 'feminist wimmin' lynch mob come round to get me with a rope, the other thing wrong with women is too many of 'em have no sense of humour.

Nemesis runs away laughing (very quickly) while poking out his tongue!

[joko]

very funny nemesis - but you actually have a point.

it is the continued oppression and patronising that have many women subconsciously thinking thats all they are fit for - looking pretty and being looked after.
that they have a role in society and must stick to it regardless of how unfair it is -"because thats the way things are"

i have lost count of the number of women have made similar statements to me, never questioning, never thinking for themselves, becasue they have been brought up to feel inferior and subserviant, and "thats just the way things are"
i have also lost count of the number who won't change a plug, or wash the car, mow the lawn "becasue its the mans job" ( this is also the case the other way round) - instead they will panic and pay someone or ask a male friend round - when these jobs are a piece of pish to do! in fact most plugs these days come with instructions!!
they simply will not dare tackle the job, for fear of ridicule.

my own mum laughed at me once when i said i was going to wallpaper a room in my house - couldn't understand a girl doing it and joked that i should have been a boy!
its wall paper! not bare-knuckle boxing!

it may be an indirect form of oppression, but its oppression all the same

[saxy_jag]

It's interesting that women are treated as equals in some of the so-called 'bad' religions - Wicca and Paganism, for example.

[Llamatron]

JudgeJ, the reason Golf Clubs are castigated for sexist policies whereas religions are not is that, amongst other things, golfers wont blow up a school bus if they feel offended.

[felinechums]

I agree tonyted but the virgin mary is well thought of only because she was a virgin, untouched and untouchable, and therefore above both mortal women and mortal men. Once she becomes a real woman in the real world, her status diminishes.

[NikkiB]

An awful lot of religion seems to be focused on the control of women. How often is it that a woman sets up a new religion, cult or sect? Very seldomly. Women seem to find their own ways of existing in a cooperative fashion. It's men who want laws and rules, particularly ones that lay down a divine right to govern females. 75% of divorces in liberal democracies are instigated by women which leads me to suspect that there are an awful lot of females in religious-dominated parts of the world who are suffering in abusive and unhappy marriages but unable to do a thing about it.