Selling Arms To Saudi? Illegal!

[spathiphyllum]

I told you selling weapons to the saudi's was sketchy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-court-appeal-ruling-yemen-war-weapons-a8966731.html

[Paigntonian]

That won't be great news for the eight per cent of GB's manufacturing workforce, or for the nine per cent of our GDP generated by what is misleadingly called 'arms sales'.

[spathiphyllum]

Yeah but it is great news for Yemen children who are being blown up in their school busses whilst on the way to school by UK bombs being thrown by the Saudi's.

[Paigntonian]

Spath: That's terribly naive. The Saudis can buy arms anywhere. Happier if they were French or Russian weapons?

[spathiphyllum]

" Saudi forces are accused of committing war crimes." - These crimes are being committed by the weapons that the Uk are supplying them. UK fighter jets and bombs are being used to kill Yemen civies and children.

Think this should sum it up:

"Lord Justice Irwin and Lord Justice Singh concluded that it was “irrational and therefore unlawful” for the international trade secretary to have licenced the weapons exports without assessing whether past incidents amounted to breaches of international humanitarian law "

[spathiphyllum]

"Happier if they were French or Russian weapons?"

Absolutely. At least we are then not involved. Even happier if they just stopped all war completely, but that discussion is futile.

[Old_Geezer]

Whilst having sympathy with the idea we should stop, I doubt the victims of hostilities care which nations supplied the arms, merely that someone did. Embargoes should be multinational agreements.

[spathiphyllum]

What we do breaches of international humanitarian law so i assume if others did the same, they would also be breaching IHL.

[Paigntonian]

Old Geezer is right. If the UN were to try to get agreements not to sell weapons then it would make a difference. But there are at six five major problems with arms embargos. 1. There's a thriving black market in arms. 2. Countries cheat (try Iran-Contra). 3. Often impossible to decide if arms are for defence or intended for aggression. 4. Times change. A country in receipt of arms for 'peaceful' purposes may, several years later, want to use them for a different purpose. There really is no black and white in regard to weaponry and, lastly, it is often impossible to decide what constitutes weaponry (try the Scott Report and Matrix Churchill). Does the export of steel tubing represent an 'arms sale'?

[Old_Geezer]

Was in the interpretation I suspect. The verdict should be at the international courts.

[spathiphyllum]

Patigonian, we can do our best to stop it. That seems to be stopping the sales. I don't see why you would want us to fund this war. We could at least make it harder for them to access weapons.

OG, yes correct. However, at the moment WE supply them, so it's something the UK needs to stop and sort out.

We can make guesses on what the Saudis would do next and get what from where, but that's not our problem. Our problem is we're supplying the death of school children.

[Paigntonian]

Spath: We're not killing schoolchildren. The Saudis and their disgusting regime are doing that. Therefore it's a wider matter of human rights and diplomatic pressure. Nothing will change, I suspect, until they run out of oil. Then we can gloat.

[spathiphyllum]

That's like saying.. walking in and watching someone rob a bank, then walking out with them isn't illegal because you didn't actually rob the bank.

It doesn't work like that. We are responsible.

[spathiphyllum]

The high court literally ruled it illegal lol.

[douglas9401]

Perhaps all deals with Saudis could be conducted in bus shelters in Nottingham where natural justice and the sterner law enforcers don't seem to venture.
Solve all the problems in one.

[youngmafbog]

"It doesn't work like that."

That pretty much aligns to all your protestations.

Arms dealing is not a clear cut business. Never has been, never will.

And, have you ever heard the expression "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer?" With Arms this is often a pretty good idea.