Body & Soul1 min ago
Property Deeds
19 Answers
My mortgage was with Nationwide building society and I paid off about 2 years ago. When I paid off I remember seeing a letter from Nationwide saying they don't have the deed but if I need a copy I should be contacting the Land Registry.
At the time, I didn't followed up and now I can't find that letter from Nationwide.
My question is is true that Nationwide doesn't hold the deed?
Is it just simply buy a copy off the Title deed from the Land Registry and I won't have problem with selling the house and proof of owner of the house?
(I have been up all night trying to find that that letter!!).
Hopefully someone can reply and put me at rest.
Thanks.
At the time, I didn't followed up and now I can't find that letter from Nationwide.
My question is is true that Nationwide doesn't hold the deed?
Is it just simply buy a copy off the Title deed from the Land Registry and I won't have problem with selling the house and proof of owner of the house?
(I have been up all night trying to find that that letter!!).
Hopefully someone can reply and put me at rest.
Thanks.
Answers
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If you use my first link above you shouldn't have any problems with the date of registration
01:37 Sat 13th Jun 2020
I am on the Land Registry website and wishing to purchase a copy of the title deed, but I am not clear with the following meaning:
"For properties registered before 1993....."
"For properties registered after 1993...."
Is the registration refers to when the property was built and registered or the date I purchased ?
"For properties registered before 1993....."
"For properties registered after 1993...."
Is the registration refers to when the property was built and registered or the date I purchased ?
The physical title deeds to a property are now largely irrelevant. It's what's on the Land Registry's database that matters most.
Title registers are in the public domain and anyone can download a copy for just £3 (with a further £3 getting you a copy of the title plan):
https:/
(I've used the service myself to check on who owns a neighbouring property to my own. It's very easy to use).
You should note though that, for ease of record-keeping, some of the more complex content of a title register might be omitted from the downloadable version. To get hold of the 'full' version (which is what a conveyancer would need when dealing with a property sale anyway) you need to use Form OC2
https:/
by post and pay a fee of £7.
A conveyancer might still prefer to have access to the physical title deeds (e.g. to check on any covenants or rights of way shown there) but, since the Land Registration Act 2002 came into force, it's what's on the Land Registry's database that matters when it comes to proving title to the property.
Title registers are in the public domain and anyone can download a copy for just £3 (with a further £3 getting you a copy of the title plan):
https:/
(I've used the service myself to check on who owns a neighbouring property to my own. It's very easy to use).
You should note though that, for ease of record-keeping, some of the more complex content of a title register might be omitted from the downloadable version. To get hold of the 'full' version (which is what a conveyancer would need when dealing with a property sale anyway) you need to use Form OC2
https:/
by post and pay a fee of £7.
A conveyancer might still prefer to have access to the physical title deeds (e.g. to check on any covenants or rights of way shown there) but, since the Land Registration Act 2002 came into force, it's what's on the Land Registry's database that matters when it comes to proving title to the property.
PS: One thing that's definitely worth checking on the title register is that there's no mortgage charge shown against the property. About a decade after paying off my mortgage I tried to sell part of my garden to a neighbour, only to find that I couldn't because (according to the title register) there was still a charge against the property. The Woolwich Building Society had never submitted the paperwork to get it removed!
[Sorting that out was complicated as, by then, the Woolwich Building Society no longer existed!]
[Sorting that out was complicated as, by then, the Woolwich Building Society no longer existed!]
the reason for the land registry assuming responsibility is that several years ago a large percentage of England and Wales deeds ended up being burnt by some young arsonist (about 12) who managed to get into the repository and set fire to it. It caused havoc with various solicitors.....I think this is why the Registry's date is set around 1993.
Buenchico I had the same problem a few years or so after we paid off our mortgage. the bank was still in existence but I spoke by phone to a rather languid young man who asked me if I really needed the bank to deal with it and couldn't we use the papers we had as it would mean searching through the paper archive...I am afraid I told him to get his ummmm "backside" into gear and sort it as I didn't see why I should do the work to correct their error. Husband who was listening to the phonecall just about spat his coffee laughing.
See this sample document, OCN:
https:/
Note that on the third page the following words appear:
"Except under an order of the registrar no disposition by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor of the charge . . . "
That's an indication that there's a charge ( = mortgage) registered against the property.
Then look further down, on the last page, for where it says "Registered Charge" (circled in red). That gives details of the actual charge.
If similar wording appears on your own title register then the Land Registry is under the impression that you've not yet paid your mortgage off.
However if the only reference to the Nationwide Building Society is akin to the one shown on the first page of the sample document (referring to the fictional Ilkingham Building Society), then it's purely historic information about who the lender was at the time of purchase.
https:/
Note that on the third page the following words appear:
"Except under an order of the registrar no disposition by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor of the charge . . . "
That's an indication that there's a charge ( = mortgage) registered against the property.
Then look further down, on the last page, for where it says "Registered Charge" (circled in red). That gives details of the actual charge.
If similar wording appears on your own title register then the Land Registry is under the impression that you've not yet paid your mortgage off.
However if the only reference to the Nationwide Building Society is akin to the one shown on the first page of the sample document (referring to the fictional Ilkingham Building Society), then it's purely historic information about who the lender was at the time of purchase.
Buenchico, I have copied the words in the Title Deed. Note I have deleted some of the personal data.
Under section Title Absolute, para 3 refer to the Charges Register, below.
Under section Charges Register, para 7 to 9 - not sure what it is about.
Title absolute:
1 (24.12.2002) PROPRIETOR: ANOTHER NAME ADDRESS OF XXX YYYY.
2 (24.12.2002) The price stated to have been paid on 11 December 2002 for the land in this title and in title WKxxxxx was £xxxxxx.
3 (24.12.2002) The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants referred to in the Charges Register and of indemnity in respect thereof.
Charges Register:
This register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land.
1 The land is subject to the rights of drainage and rights in respect of water, gas and electricity supply services.
2 The land is subject to such rights of way water light support and other rights easements or quasi-easements as are enjoyed by the adjoining properties.
3 A Conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated 7 November 1907 made between (1) Selwood Cooke Riddle and (2) Henry John Scott Rumble and Mary Elizabeth Willington Hogg. contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
4 A Conveyance of the land tinted pink on the filed plan and other land dated 22 July 1909 made between (1) The Friendly Benefit Building Society (2) Henry John Scott Rumble and Mary Elizabeth Willington Hogg (Vendors) and (3) Elizabeth Rumble (Purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
5 A Conveyance of the land tinted blue on the filed plan and other land dated 14 February 1918 made between (1) Thomas Ernest Pearce and Walter Harry Hill (Vendors) and (2) Minnie Frances Owen (Purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
6 Lease dated 4 October 1966 to Barry Wyndham Parkhurst and Betty Margaret Parkhurst for 99 years from 25 December 1964.
NOTE: Lessee's title registered under WK12345.
7 (10.12.2004) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 6 December 2004 affecting also title WK12345.
8 (10.12.2004) Proprietor: NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY of Nationwide House, Pipers Way, Swindon L SN38 1NW.
9 (10.12.2004) The proprietor of the Charge dated 6 December 2004 referred to above is under an obligation to make further advances. These advances will have priority to the extent afforded by section 49(3) Land Registration Act 2002.
Under section Title Absolute, para 3 refer to the Charges Register, below.
Under section Charges Register, para 7 to 9 - not sure what it is about.
Title absolute:
1 (24.12.2002) PROPRIETOR: ANOTHER NAME ADDRESS OF XXX YYYY.
2 (24.12.2002) The price stated to have been paid on 11 December 2002 for the land in this title and in title WKxxxxx was £xxxxxx.
3 (24.12.2002) The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants referred to in the Charges Register and of indemnity in respect thereof.
Charges Register:
This register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land.
1 The land is subject to the rights of drainage and rights in respect of water, gas and electricity supply services.
2 The land is subject to such rights of way water light support and other rights easements or quasi-easements as are enjoyed by the adjoining properties.
3 A Conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated 7 November 1907 made between (1) Selwood Cooke Riddle and (2) Henry John Scott Rumble and Mary Elizabeth Willington Hogg. contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
4 A Conveyance of the land tinted pink on the filed plan and other land dated 22 July 1909 made between (1) The Friendly Benefit Building Society (2) Henry John Scott Rumble and Mary Elizabeth Willington Hogg (Vendors) and (3) Elizabeth Rumble (Purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
5 A Conveyance of the land tinted blue on the filed plan and other land dated 14 February 1918 made between (1) Thomas Ernest Pearce and Walter Harry Hill (Vendors) and (2) Minnie Frances Owen (Purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
6 Lease dated 4 October 1966 to Barry Wyndham Parkhurst and Betty Margaret Parkhurst for 99 years from 25 December 1964.
NOTE: Lessee's title registered under WK12345.
7 (10.12.2004) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 6 December 2004 affecting also title WK12345.
8 (10.12.2004) Proprietor: NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY of Nationwide House, Pipers Way, Swindon L SN38 1NW.
9 (10.12.2004) The proprietor of the Charge dated 6 December 2004 referred to above is under an obligation to make further advances. These advances will have priority to the extent afforded by section 49(3) Land Registration Act 2002.
Hmmm.
I'm no expert on title registers. It's possible that the references to a charge against the property might be merely historic. However I'd definitely get it checked out in order to avoid possible problems later when the house is to be sold.
I suggest writing a letter to . . .
Customer Enquiries
Nationwide Building Society
Nationwide House
Pipers Way
Swindon
SN38 1NW
. . . along the lines of . . .
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I held a mortgage on my property (at the above address) with Nationwide Building Society until approximately two years ago, when I paid it off in full.
I now note that the title register to the property (copy enclosed) still includes a reference to a registered charge against the property, with the Nationwide Building Society being the proprietor of such a charge.
It therefore appears to me that the Nationwide Building Society failed to seek the discharge of the registered charge against my property after I had repaid my mortgage in full. As this could cause difficulties for me or my successors in negotiating a future sale, I would be grateful if you could investigate this matter and, if necessary, take steps to remedy the situation.
Yours faithfully".
I'm no expert on title registers. It's possible that the references to a charge against the property might be merely historic. However I'd definitely get it checked out in order to avoid possible problems later when the house is to be sold.
I suggest writing a letter to . . .
Customer Enquiries
Nationwide Building Society
Nationwide House
Pipers Way
Swindon
SN38 1NW
. . . along the lines of . . .
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I held a mortgage on my property (at the above address) with Nationwide Building Society until approximately two years ago, when I paid it off in full.
I now note that the title register to the property (copy enclosed) still includes a reference to a registered charge against the property, with the Nationwide Building Society being the proprietor of such a charge.
It therefore appears to me that the Nationwide Building Society failed to seek the discharge of the registered charge against my property after I had repaid my mortgage in full. As this could cause difficulties for me or my successors in negotiating a future sale, I would be grateful if you could investigate this matter and, if necessary, take steps to remedy the situation.
Yours faithfully".
I had talked to Nationwide earlier this week and they confirmed that the charge was removed two years ago. So they said they will notify Land Registry again when I told them that the deed still made reference to Nationwide.
This morning I received a letter from Land Registry saying that the lender had notified them that my mortgage has been paid off.
So I checked the Deed title again this morning, and now I can see all references to Nationwide has been removed.
I remember that two years ago I had received a similar letter from Land Registry informing me that my mortgage has been paid off and if I wish I can have a copy of the deed from their website.
It seems that Land Registry has acknowledged that I paid off the mortgage 2 years ago. But why the deed title has not been updated to reflect that.?
Could it be that the Land Registry data is inconsistent or that the data/record has changed by itself?
Do I trust the Land Registry record?
Should people be checking the record every few years to see it still correct?
This morning I received a letter from Land Registry saying that the lender had notified them that my mortgage has been paid off.
So I checked the Deed title again this morning, and now I can see all references to Nationwide has been removed.
I remember that two years ago I had received a similar letter from Land Registry informing me that my mortgage has been paid off and if I wish I can have a copy of the deed from their website.
It seems that Land Registry has acknowledged that I paid off the mortgage 2 years ago. But why the deed title has not been updated to reflect that.?
Could it be that the Land Registry data is inconsistent or that the data/record has changed by itself?
Do I trust the Land Registry record?
Should people be checking the record every few years to see it still correct?
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