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Nhs/Gov Coronavirus Tracing App Ditched In Major U-Turn
The Government Corona app which has been an expensive waste of money, and more crucially time.
Switching to a new app based on the Apple/Google model.
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Switching to a new app based on the Apple/Google model.
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>I wonder how many infections and deaths have occurred because the app wasn’t out 10 weeks ago.
I think this is what PP calls a non-sequitur. Over the last 10 weeks has there been an effective contact tracing app that works anywhere in the world?
If they hadn't tried they'd have been criticised.
However I agree Matt and even Did Harding have moved the goalposts a bit and are rewriting history by saying they were backing both horses since they had been emphasising the NHS app
I think this is what PP calls a non-sequitur. Over the last 10 weeks has there been an effective contact tracing app that works anywhere in the world?
If they hadn't tried they'd have been criticised.
However I agree Matt and even Did Harding have moved the goalposts a bit and are rewriting history by saying they were backing both horses since they had been emphasising the NHS app
a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.
defn of non sequitur
people get confused by Latin
yeah but no but - it is an answerable question because we know the number of covid deaths (about - ish)
and we know a statistic called "numbers need to treat" - 8
so the proportion not dying is around 10%
defn of non sequitur
people get confused by Latin
yeah but no but - it is an answerable question because we know the number of covid deaths (about - ish)
and we know a statistic called "numbers need to treat" - 8
so the proportion not dying is around 10%
It seems that the “acoustic” version of contact tracing is going to involve people who’ve tested positive being contacted and asked to say who they have been in contact with. This is marginally more sensible than the system as originally envisaged. As for the app it’s not surprising this problem has happened. The two systems were always on a collision course.
We have a government it seems being constantly reactive rather than proactive.
NI has now introduced one metre social distancing for schools when they restart. What chance that happening in England I wonder
We have a government it seems being constantly reactive rather than proactive.
NI has now introduced one metre social distancing for schools when they restart. What chance that happening in England I wonder
//People will generously infect each other and ultimately no-one will be left out. The NHS will soar toward even higher losses of life, already one of the very worst ratios worldwide -//
Very possibly. Who knows?
As far as I am aware this is the first time an epidemic or pandemic has been tackled by nationwide lockdowns and the virtual shutdown of 90% of the nation's economy and education for three months and counting. Unsurprisingly it's been an unmitigated disaster. We have a third of a million known infections (and probably many times that number unknown) and the second or third highest number of deaths in the world. All it's done is delayed the ultimate number of infections and deaths, spreading them out over a longer period and ensuring the extension of the ridiculous measures that have been introduced almost ad infinitum. The damage to the economy and to the population's non-Covid related illness is now becoming visible and it immense. Basically the strategy is insane.
I agreed with the initial lockdown only because it was designed to allow time for the ill-prepared NHS to get its backside into gear. Once it had done so (as best as it was ever likely to, after about four to six weeks) the restrictions should have been removed.
The virus will not be "beaten". It may retire gracefully when it's ready but it is something that will have to be lived with until then. The government has painted itself into a corner and now is terrified of relaxing the restrictions because once they are removed they cannot possibly be reinstated. The subject of this thread is simply the latest in a long line of mis-managements that have been evident throughout this fiasco.
People that are of the opinion that they will die if they leave home or that they will become infected if they come within 2m of another person can continue to remain locked up. Those enjoying a lengthy summer break on 80% pay and in no hurry to return to work will be among the first to complain when the furlough money runs out and they have no jobs to return to. The country needs to get real. The only alternative to so-called "herd immunity" is either a vaccine (chances none to less than that) or perpetual lockdown. The country has had three months of it and is in dire straits. The disastrous experiment can go on no longer. Not only that, I need a haircut.
Very possibly. Who knows?
As far as I am aware this is the first time an epidemic or pandemic has been tackled by nationwide lockdowns and the virtual shutdown of 90% of the nation's economy and education for three months and counting. Unsurprisingly it's been an unmitigated disaster. We have a third of a million known infections (and probably many times that number unknown) and the second or third highest number of deaths in the world. All it's done is delayed the ultimate number of infections and deaths, spreading them out over a longer period and ensuring the extension of the ridiculous measures that have been introduced almost ad infinitum. The damage to the economy and to the population's non-Covid related illness is now becoming visible and it immense. Basically the strategy is insane.
I agreed with the initial lockdown only because it was designed to allow time for the ill-prepared NHS to get its backside into gear. Once it had done so (as best as it was ever likely to, after about four to six weeks) the restrictions should have been removed.
The virus will not be "beaten". It may retire gracefully when it's ready but it is something that will have to be lived with until then. The government has painted itself into a corner and now is terrified of relaxing the restrictions because once they are removed they cannot possibly be reinstated. The subject of this thread is simply the latest in a long line of mis-managements that have been evident throughout this fiasco.
People that are of the opinion that they will die if they leave home or that they will become infected if they come within 2m of another person can continue to remain locked up. Those enjoying a lengthy summer break on 80% pay and in no hurry to return to work will be among the first to complain when the furlough money runs out and they have no jobs to return to. The country needs to get real. The only alternative to so-called "herd immunity" is either a vaccine (chances none to less than that) or perpetual lockdown. The country has had three months of it and is in dire straits. The disastrous experiment can go on no longer. Not only that, I need a haircut.
^^^Indeed.
If people like Ken don’t have the mental fortitude to lead a normal life, then fine, they can continue to cower behind their sofa, but for those of us who are mentally more robust, it is now long overdue that we be allowed to go about our business.
As sad as it is, this virus is a killer of the old and the vulnerable. As of a couple of weeks ago, the number of people under 45 who had died was less than 400; that is a small number.
The economy should have taken precedence weeks ago; those that want it to continue are those that are enjoying an extended holiday on 80% pay being paid by the taxpayer, people that don’t work and therefore don’t care anyway, those that don’t need to work, the retired and the petrified.
And how many bloody times does it have to be said that 2m is not rule? I’ve walked within 2m of people and some of them look at you as though you’ve been caught shagging their mum; it’s laughable.
I sincerely hope the distancing guideline is scrapped altogether, or at the very least reduced to 1m so the hospitality industry will be able to get back up and running - this is an important part of our economy; if the 2m guideline is not removed, they won’t bother opening as they’d be making a loss, and will just continue to furlough their staff.
If people like Ken don’t have the mental fortitude to lead a normal life, then fine, they can continue to cower behind their sofa, but for those of us who are mentally more robust, it is now long overdue that we be allowed to go about our business.
As sad as it is, this virus is a killer of the old and the vulnerable. As of a couple of weeks ago, the number of people under 45 who had died was less than 400; that is a small number.
The economy should have taken precedence weeks ago; those that want it to continue are those that are enjoying an extended holiday on 80% pay being paid by the taxpayer, people that don’t work and therefore don’t care anyway, those that don’t need to work, the retired and the petrified.
And how many bloody times does it have to be said that 2m is not rule? I’ve walked within 2m of people and some of them look at you as though you’ve been caught shagging their mum; it’s laughable.
I sincerely hope the distancing guideline is scrapped altogether, or at the very least reduced to 1m so the hospitality industry will be able to get back up and running - this is an important part of our economy; if the 2m guideline is not removed, they won’t bother opening as they’d be making a loss, and will just continue to furlough their staff.
Gromit's question to himself: "I wonder how many infections and deaths have occurred because the app wasn’t out 10 weeks ago"
I haven't worked the answer out but as the trial was only ever on the Isle of Wight which has a population of around 140000 I think the answer has to be a very small number, especially as there has still been the old contact tracing system.
The government was right to try to commission the trial of such an app- the idea of an NHS app is more attractive to some than one run by Google/Apple- but it should have done a similar largish visible trial using the Google/Apple apps too. It was also unwise to raise expectations - they should have made it clear that there was a good chance of failure as no other similar countries had found one but it was worth trying
I haven't worked the answer out but as the trial was only ever on the Isle of Wight which has a population of around 140000 I think the answer has to be a very small number, especially as there has still been the old contact tracing system.
The government was right to try to commission the trial of such an app- the idea of an NHS app is more attractive to some than one run by Google/Apple- but it should have done a similar largish visible trial using the Google/Apple apps too. It was also unwise to raise expectations - they should have made it clear that there was a good chance of failure as no other similar countries had found one but it was worth trying
The 1m thing will happen, at least in some areas like schools and transport (coupled with face coverings) certainly for side to side or back to back seating, The hints are there. But they can't move to it yet until we are sure the existing relaxations are not leading to a pick up. We know there have been a few local flare ups - eg East England, Leicester- and hospital admissions have picked up a bit.
They have said it's being reviewed by them and SAGE. If anything the constant questions about it may slow down the announcement as the govt won't want to be seen to giving into pressure again. They should say "we are reviewing it and will make an announcement on (say) 26th June and no earlier so don't waste your time asking"
They have said it's being reviewed by them and SAGE. If anything the constant questions about it may slow down the announcement as the govt won't want to be seen to giving into pressure again. They should say "we are reviewing it and will make an announcement on (say) 26th June and no earlier so don't waste your time asking"
fiction-factory
Apple and Google Android have not produced any Apps. The (Any) Government build their own App.
What Apple Google have done is agree a protocol of how any corona apps will work that takes advantage of the iOS and Android phone Operating Systems. In effect, Apple Google did a lot of the hard work to make the apps work well and efficiently, by integrating them with the Operating Systems. That made producing an app a lot easier.
If anyone goes against the instructions, there is a good chance the app won’t work properly. The UK ignored the instructions and the app doesn’t work.
My fear is that everyone that failed to produce a working app have not been fired, but have been given the chance to fail on a second attempt.
Dominic Cummings attended SAGE meetings with Ben Warner, the No.10 digital advisor who Cummings recruited from the Vote Leave campaign.
SAGE/NHSX and Warner progressed the wrong app strategy that led to this failure. One of the partners they commission to build the App was ‘Faculty’ a company run by Ben Warner’s brother, Marc Warner, another Vote Leave veteran.
Apple and Google Android have not produced any Apps. The (Any) Government build their own App.
What Apple Google have done is agree a protocol of how any corona apps will work that takes advantage of the iOS and Android phone Operating Systems. In effect, Apple Google did a lot of the hard work to make the apps work well and efficiently, by integrating them with the Operating Systems. That made producing an app a lot easier.
If anyone goes against the instructions, there is a good chance the app won’t work properly. The UK ignored the instructions and the app doesn’t work.
My fear is that everyone that failed to produce a working app have not been fired, but have been given the chance to fail on a second attempt.
Dominic Cummings attended SAGE meetings with Ben Warner, the No.10 digital advisor who Cummings recruited from the Vote Leave campaign.
SAGE/NHSX and Warner progressed the wrong app strategy that led to this failure. One of the partners they commission to build the App was ‘Faculty’ a company run by Ben Warner’s brother, Marc Warner, another Vote Leave veteran.
dannyk13
// Of course Gromit omitted to say that the fault was with Microsoft who could not supply an app that was suitable for use //
I didn't say it because it is not true.
Microsoft were one of 4 companies involved, but they were not tasked with building the app. Microsoft have been producing world class software for 45 years, and writing a phone app is a very easy coding job. It wasn’t Microsoft who failed to deliver.
US tech giants ‘Palentir’ working closely with UK Data analytics company ‘Faculty’ are the real culprits. The whole fiasco was overseen by NHSX part of NHS Improvement.
The head NHS improvement is Dido Harding, wife of Conservative MP John Penrose. She is a University chum of David Cameron. Her previous claim to fame was as CEO of TalkTalk where she was involved in another fiasco when millions of customer accounts were hacked and banking details stolen. It cost the company £millions, and she was soon let go.
https:/
// Of course Gromit omitted to say that the fault was with Microsoft who could not supply an app that was suitable for use //
I didn't say it because it is not true.
Microsoft were one of 4 companies involved, but they were not tasked with building the app. Microsoft have been producing world class software for 45 years, and writing a phone app is a very easy coding job. It wasn’t Microsoft who failed to deliver.
US tech giants ‘Palentir’ working closely with UK Data analytics company ‘Faculty’ are the real culprits. The whole fiasco was overseen by NHSX part of NHS Improvement.
The head NHS improvement is Dido Harding, wife of Conservative MP John Penrose. She is a University chum of David Cameron. Her previous claim to fame was as CEO of TalkTalk where she was involved in another fiasco when millions of customer accounts were hacked and banking details stolen. It cost the company £millions, and she was soon let go.
https:/
it seems NHSX were not keen on competition
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