Cannot Get Very Old Door Knob Off

[ladyalex]

Hello

We cannot remove a very old door knob attached to a very old Carpenter 60 rimlock. (Probably installed around 1860)
There is no screw attaching it to the spindle.
There is a hole underneath but poking around in there has not done anything.
I have some pictures but do not know how to put them on.

Any ideas ?

[ladyalex]

http://www.upl.co/uploads/202005081426541588944927.jpg

[Mamyalynne]

Here's your third one which failed.

http://www.upl.co/uploads/202005081426541588944927.jpg

[ladyalex]

The handle we are trying to get off is the one on the other side of the door from the lock.
I have tried to show you both sides of the lock, the offending handle from underneath where the hole can be seen and from the side.

Thanks everybody.

[ladyalex]

Thanks mamya

[ladyalex]

How on earth did you do that ?

[The Builder]

Sorry for the delay, I needed some lunch.

Wooden knobs?
Most likely not original. The original ones were probably brass.

Where I'm suggesting you apply leverage, is on the lock side... between the lockcase and the knob.

Failing that, I would suggest splitting the wooden knob with an old chisel. It should split easily and fall off.

[dannyk13]

Alex. one way would be to saw the knob down the middle and break the two halves off exposing the spindle so you could get a wrench on it.

[ladyalex]

Thanks guys, it may yet come to that.
We actually have three doors in the house with identical rimlocks. None of them have screws to remove the handles, all of them have holes/slots at the bottom. All of them have wooden handles each side.
We are wondering if there is some ancient mechanism that would get the handles off that involves the hole/slit.....which we cannot of course see.
We want to remove the paint from the locks and get them working properly again.....the idea was to take them to a locksmith to see if they could make a key. Also to get the slide lock mechanism at the bottom working again
The perils of lockdown.....embarking on a job like this.....

[The Builder]

Removing all that awful paint would be a great idea LadyA.
These locks look wonderful when stripped and buffed up....... with decent knobs.

There is nothing available that I can think of.......... just animal force.

If you can get all the knobs off, and just be left with the spindle, you can refit with new knobs.
If any knob remains stubborn (with one left on the spindle), you could always fit new spindles as well, and discard the old.

These old rimlocks usually come apart quite easily once removed. Probably just a matter of finding the screws to open the lock up.
Freeing up the slider is easy to do then.
And, yes, you may be able to have a key made. Rimlocks are quite crude. They often have only 10 "differs". That means only 10 possible key configurations possible.

I do hope you're able to split the knobs and so get the spindles off successfully. It would be well worth it. I can then tell you how to strip the lock and restore it.

[alavahalf]

Seen this situation many times .. but there again I had van full of spares to carry on and get the lock working again. My job was to get in by any means and then secure the property.
Rust is a living thing and will attach itself to wood without a doubt. It will leave you with a solid mass that has little or no chance of separating the two items without the brute force already suggested.
Guessing that the whole thing is a bit worn .. is there a slight gap between the knob back plate and the face of the lock. Snap the lugs off a junior hachsaw blade and poke the blade in the gap and saw the screws off. If it is still fused onto the spindle and as the wooden knob can be sacrificed .. personally I would get a hacksaw and cut straight through the spindle. The spindle will easily be replaced during the refurbishment of the lock.

[ladyalex]

Thanks Alavahalf and everyone else.

I'll let you know how we get on.....almost certainly with brute force.

:-))

[alavahalf]

As little dynamite as possible ..

... https://youtu.be/8g_GeQR8fJo

[Mamyalynne]

Don't give Lord Alex any ideas, I recall the disaster with the portcullis.

[ladyalex]

OMG I had managed to repress the memory of the great portcullis disaster.......nightmares for days again now....

No gunpowder, definitely no gunpowder.
I think I will be able to trust him with a hacksaw......

[Mamyalynne]

Phew, a close call there.

[ladyalex]

Just in case, I've pre-blunted the hacksaw

[Mamyalynne]

First aid box replenished too.

[ladyalex]

I thought that I would post an update on this thread.
We have managed to successfully remove the locks. Hurrah!

I am not sure how easy this will be for me to explain, but here goes....

The rose holding the handle to the door has a small hole in it. It is situated at the bottom, so difficult to see.
Unfortunately looking through the hole reveals no screw. (I leave the contortions involved to your imaginations).

However, unscrewing the rose from the door and removing the (several decades of ) paint allowed us to turn the rose around to reveal...ta dah! A grubscrew in the spindle. With a lot of WD40 we managed to get this out and thus managed to remove the handle.

To be fair, we only saw how to do this after wrenching off the handle of one of them, thus revealing the cunning plan of the original carpenters to conceal the fitting.

We have now had the locks refurbished and had keys and new keeps made for them......and we are very pleased with the results.

Thanks again everyone who responded.