Raoe Or Not ?

[Canary42]

Lass agreed to sex after he told her he was infertile. This was a lie.

Is this rape ? The learned judge thinks not.

Personally I think it is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53511729

[Neveracrossword]

Canary42, I found the reasoning from the appeal judges - as given in your link - convincing and correct.

[LadyCG]

Barry, you're not taking to a pilchard here! I know what rape is and what it isn't.

[Peter Pedant]

personally I think it is
well thank god we have the learned judge in charge of the case and not you.....

think of VD - erk I would never had it wivva a prostitute if I knew I was gonna get the clap - - well sorry you did
clearly not rape
OK other way round ....

and those brave secret policemen who er impregnated the activists and the women thought the men were serious and the men thought they were just doing the job....

no criminal liability for the brave policemen and the gelz cant get anyone to pay for the kids - the police are saying "not us!"

one - let us call him Red Johnny as the police laughably cannot confirm or deny he was on the payroll - who didnt wear one - just disappeared one day
and surfaced twenty years later as a lecturer in - carmie infiltration of western society

so I think the law is pretty clear on this one

[barry1010]

Lady CG, if anyone has sex with a minor it is rape even if he or she was willing. That is the law.

[Togo]

So if a bloke has sex with a woman who tells him she is on the pill and she is up the spout because she was lying.......it is rape?

[Zacs-Master]

I see the OP realised they were out of their depth again.

[andy-hughes]

barry - // Lady CG, if anyone has sex with a minor it is rape even if he or she was willing. That is the law. //

That's not an accurate comparison.

The reason for the statute of statutory rape is because a minor is deemed not legally able to give consent, and in that case, both the terms of 'consent' and 'rape' are legal terminology.

[tomus42]

The judge has to make a decision based on what the legal definition of rape is. It might be the right decision but the definition probably needs looking at.

[archibaldy]

My initial reaction is that it's definitely not rape however reading the link to the "case known as R(F)" I can see that this whole subject is more nuanced than my first impression. Put bluntly she explicitly did not consent to have working sperm put in her and the man did just that - if that's not rape what is it?

For the record I still don't think it's rape but I've learned something by reading all that.

[jno]

is consent obtained by fraud really consent?

[Old_Geezer]

Intercourse isn't about whether the sperm "works", Archie.

Since there was no way of telling whether the claim of infertility was correct, it won't have been stipulated as a precondition, since in risky circumstances one makes a decision and takes one's chances. So, the lie won't be classed as fraud and the consent was still consent.

[dannyk13]

I would agree with the judge.The circumstances of this offence do not fit into the definition of rape under UK law.
https://www.localsolicitors.com/criminal-guides/a-guide-to-uk-rape-laws

[barry1010]

Andy, that was just an example. If a person is too drunk or drugged (whether through their own doing or by the rapist spiking the drink as an instance) to consent to sex then it is still rape. There is no mention of 'force' in the legislation. All that is required is:
a) penetration of one or more of the three specified orifices by a certain part of the body
b) without consent and
c) the perpetrator does not reasonably believe that there is consent.

(I am avoiding use of the specific body parts).

No force, no violence is needed. If the perpetrator uses another part of his body or an object it is 'assault by penetration' and still there is no requirement of force.

Consent is the major issue when the physical act has been identified. Just as a minor cannot consent in law, an unconscious person cannot consent. An adult that does not have sufficient mental capacity to consent can be raped even if he or she does not object.

[Canary42]

Thank you for all your views - it makes interesting reading.

Thanks especially to Ellipsis for that link regarding Rape by Deception, it too makes interesting reading.

Incidentally I still beg to differ from most of you and tend to hold to my original opinion but recognise that current English Law puts the judge in the right.