Hs2?

[andy-hughes]

Given the utterly outrageous cost of this monstrosity, and the fact that all capital projects outrun their original budget and timescale like a greyhound on a track - coupled with the apparent reluctance of the office population to return to their desks, is it possible that the 'urgent need' to shave twenty minutes off the time from London to Birmingham might have to be abandoned?

[douglas9401]

Possible, but highly unlikely given the huffing and puffing over the years by ne'erdowell politicians and their profit hungry mates.

Somebody should be jailed for this kind of scandalous waste/jobs for the boys.

[New Judge]

But it isn't just shaving 20 mins off the journey time to Brum, Andy. The West Coast Main Line is full to capacity and more cannot be created with the current infrastructure. When demand returns to normal (as it will when this current nonsense is over) more capacity will be needed. The idea is to get much of the InterCity traffic off the current WCML and onto HS2, leaving the "heritage" line to deal with local passenger traffic and freight.

[andy-hughes]

douglas - // Possible, but highly unlikely given the huffing and puffing over the years by ne'erdowell politicians and their profit hungry mates.//

You may be right.

I have been discussing the project with my brother in law who is a civil engineer and he advised me that once a project has gone as far along its projected path as HS2 has, it would actually cost more money to stop it and find an alternative, than to see it through to the end.

[brainiac]

I've often wondered how much it's going to cost to travel on this white elephant - an eye-watering amount, no doubt.

[andy-hughes]

Brainiac - // I've often wondered how much it's going to cost to travel on this white elephant - an eye-watering amount, no doubt. //

I am mystified how any government of the last fifty years can seriously contemplate constructing a new railway, given their utterly comprehensive and inexcusable inability to run the railway they've got now!!!

[Zacs-Master]

Our very own mushroom may be along to clarify what HS2 will do, other than shaving a few more precious minutes off a Leeds / London or Birmingham/ London journey.

I was of the same opinion as yourself, Moderator Hughes, until mush clarified the situation.

[andy-hughes]

New Judge - // But it isn't just shaving 20 mins off the journey time to Brum, Andy. //

Correct - because the twenty minutes will be re-lost transferring from the new line, which does not run into the city centre, and getting a train on the existing line to take you for the last part of your journey.

[andy-hughes]

Zacs - // I was of the same opinion as yourself, Moderator Hughes, until mush clarified the situation. //

Having spent the weekend in Buckinghamshire and seen first hand the heart-breaking devastation involved in the initial land clearance, I will never believe that any time saved will justify the wholesale demolition of such beautiful houses and woodland.

For example, the ex-wife of musician Mike Oldfield lives in a house and studio with a large piece of land next to it, which the government have compulsorily purchased from her.

The government have planted a mass of trees on the land, as part of their 'three trees planted for everyone destroyed' deal - and they will return the land to her in ten years time, from whence she will be obliged to maintain the trees at her own expense.

Extrapolate that level of unfairness across the entire county of Buckinghamshire, and it becomes a monstrous injustice that is way beyond any reasonable explanation.

I hope the current absence of commuting becomes permanent, and the entire abomination is choked off before it gets any further.

[Zacs-Master]

Forgive me but I can’t quite bring myself to feel sorry for anyone who can afford to live in Buckinghamshire.

Anyway, this is, I believe, the thread which mushroom changed my mind on.......
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/ChatterBank/Question1692363-1.html

[lady-janine]

Personally I feel the whole idea is monstrous and should have been cancelled at inception.

Not everyone who lives in Bucks is rich. Very incorrect judgemental.

[pixie374]

I live in Bucks, and I'm certainly not rich... it's the destruction of Roald Dahl's woods which is upsetting me now. So many people use it with dogs, children, horses, etc. It's the shortcut to the local secondary school, so loads of schoolchildren use it, instead of walking on the roads.
There were lots of protestors, but since lockdown... they have gone and destruction has very quickly gone ahead.

[mushroom25]

// is it possible that the 'urgent need' to shave twenty minutes off the time from London to Birmingham might have to be abandoned? //

the "urgent need" wasn't for a 20mn journey reduction, but for an increase in capacity - the 20mn reduction would be a spin off benefit. upgrading the existing infrastructure wasn't an option, the last upgrade took decades, was hugely disruptive and the extra capacity it won was used up years before the target date. other tweaks were tried, converting some pendolino 1st class coaches to std class and running the local trains faster to make more paths available - all that capacity long ago used up.

before covid, "do nothing" wasn't an option. it could be argued that reduction in traffic caused by changes in working practices mean that's no longer true; but no-one knows at this time if that situation will persist, or for how long.

[pixie374]

Well, with working from home, Zoom, internet etc... it still seems insane to destroy the country for it. Maybe a bit more organisation would be better.

[New Judge]

You have to bear in mind, pixie, that the trains are not solely for the use of workers or business travellers. The WFH kick will gradually fade once some sanity is restored to the country. As well as that the country should be urging companies to transport bulk goods by rail and not lorry. One freight train can easily transport 1,000 tons - that's about 25 large lorry loads. To witness this insanity look at the M6 where it crosses Shap Fell in Cumbria. You can see 40 ton lorries slogging up there at 35 -40mph. On the adjacent railway you will see 1,000 ton electrically hauled freight trains whisking their loads silently over the top at 75-80mph.

[pixie374]

I hope WFH doesn't fade... it would suit so many people, particularly now we know it is often possible. Quite honestly, much as I would like businesses to flourish, there is probably not much you could say that would convince me that wiping out the countryside, animals and habitats, would make it worthwhile.

[iluvmargie]

^ Ditto !!