Estates

[Bazile]

Why do some banks and some other financial institutions require to see a copy of the will of a deceased person , before releasing funds ?

[wolf63]

to see if you should be given the money. To see if you are entitled to it.

[Buenchico]

Presumably to make sure that it's going to the right person!

For any estate, other than a very small one, a bank would normally need to see a grant of probate before releasing the funds. Even for a very small estate though, a bank would at least want to know that they were complying with the terms of the deceased person's will before allowing anyone else to have access to their money. If, say, you could prove that
(a) your parent had died ;
(b) that they weren't married at the time of their death ; and
(c) that you're their only child ;
it still wouldn't mean that you had any right to to their money. (Your parent might, for example, have left everything to Battersea Dogs' Home).

[Bazile]

But why some do and some don't ?

[Barmaid]

Each has their own internal procedure, Bazile. Normally, production of the Grant of Representation and payment to those named on the Grant will do. But for those cases where there is no Grant (or the Grant has not issued), many will ask to see the Will if there is one.

Not only does each have their own procedure, but each has their own financial limit too. Some will release £50k on receipt of death cert, statutory declaration and an indemnity - with others you have to fight for £5k.

[Barmaid]

A perfect example was administering my father-in-law's estate where one bank released around £15k after we submitted their form which included a statutory declaration and the death cert.

Another will not even give us a balance, unless my husband goes into the branch with a stack of identification documents for him and his father and agrees to sacrifice his first born.

[Canary42]

Can you name the ones which don't so that I can ensure I haven't got any account with them.

[Barmaid]

I'd love to be able to compile such a list, Canary. But generally it is hit and miss. Some have bereavement teams who are simply marvellous; the service of others depends on who is using the office brain cell that day. (I can assure you, I have seen some absolute horrors - not just from banks - but large companies following death. A memorable one was quite a stroppy letter to a widow explaining that because of data protection they could only discuss with the account holder, her husband, the deceased. I have to resist the temptation to respond with "well that's a special kind of stupid".)

[Bazile]

Thanks all

Barmaid

Signing an indemnity protects the institution's against any and future claims to the estate , I presume .

How do the executor and or beneficiaries protect themselves from claims from - a n other - down the line ?

How do you find out who all the creditors are ?

[Barmaid]

Only the executor can protect themselves. They do this by publishing advertisements pursuant to s27 Trustee Act 1925 in the London Gazette and a local paper.

If creditors arise after the time limit from the advertisements has expired and the executor has already distributed, the creditor cannot pursue the executor personally. S27 notices are very important to protect executors who do not take the whole of the estate themselves. If they fail to advertise and distribute a creditor may claim against them personally.

Beneficiaries cannot protect themselves. If a creditor claims after distribution to the beneficiaries, the beneficiaries may find themselves having to refund the money (subject to any defences which may be available).

[Bazile]

Thanks .

So if you're fortunate enough to be a beneficiary of an estate ; you take a gamble as to whether or not or when, you dispose of any money/ goods etc received ?

[Peter Pedant]

// to see if you should be given the money. To see if you are entitled to it.//
yah
I thought this point was rather er obvious
AND - it has to the will and YOU have to be the executor

Big branch of Law this in which barmaid is an expert

actually if you DO this they are very helpful

BUT.... if the deceased is intestate, you dont get any of this....

WILLS boys, write your wills

[Peter Pedant]

oops sozza boys
the Blessed Barmaid has spoken

er and I didnt know about the s27 bit....never mind, no one claimed and the estate was bankrupt like hell ( under £10k - in hock that is!)

[Barmaid]

If the PR has done their job properly, the risk is low. They should collect in the assets and discharge the debts before distributing to the beneficiaries. It is rare for creditors to pop up after distribution. I think I have dealt with 2 cases in 30 years.

Significant amounts of debt will normally be a) apparent or b) charged on the property (if any).

Debts that crop up years later are normally defeated by limitation in any event.

[Peter Pedant]

thx Barmaid

Nat west were very good. Balance about thruppence. I took a leaf out of your book and said this is so mall it can be transferred to the undertaker
and the girlie ( who had been crying - first case!) rang head off ice and they said yes

[Bazile]

//It is rare for creditors to pop up after distribution. I think I have dealt with 2 cases in 30 years.//

Ok thanks

However on the rare occasion that it may occur .

Could a creditor ( within the limitation period ) go after a beneficiary house for example , if they had no other means to satisfy the claim ?

[Barmaid]

Theoretically, they could. But the beneficiary would have a number of defences available and the different avenues make this all quite complicated. The chances of this happening are slim in the extreme - indeed, I just did a case search and I could not find anything (doesnt mean they didnt happen, just I could not find them).

If the PR has done their job properly, there should be no issue. This is a worry that is actually not worth the worry. Unless you have a particular set of circumstances in mind, I would be inclined to give it no further thought.

If the PR has just taken money out of the bank account and dished it out there might be a problem. However, if the PR has done a sensible financial search and ascertained all assets and liabilities and paid off the latter following s27 notices, then the chances of anything arising are slim.

Problems arise when families just close bank accounts and dish it out forgetting that the deceased owed £40k for care fees. The fallacy of "your debt dies with you" is a familiar retort.

[Bazile]

Thanks, Barmaid