Party Politics

[Paigntonian]

Can't help but think we'd be better served by people with integrity and intelligence. Not a Part-political point but Tony Blair and Michael Howard, William Hague and John Smith could out-perform these pygmies in an instant.

[naomi24]

Jim, I really can't be bothered with all your going around the houses - been there and done it too many times. Apart from that there are other things here that, if you are up to speed, should be commanding your attention.

[davebro]

I think it was worse than simply lying to the house - it was being complicit in falsifying the information to substantiate those lies.

[jim360]

Finally, just as a political point: Blair was popular within his own Party, his own Party held a pretty significant majority, and unsurprisingly these two factors meant that his own Party supported him on this matter (except Corbyn and a few others, who spoke out against the decision to go to War). Under all those circumstances, it's extremely difficult to hold such leaders to account -- they're just too protected, politically.

It seems to my mind preferable to be in a situation where the (former) leader of a Party that holds a majority in Parliament is not, for that very reason, protected from investigations into their conduct. To describe it as regrettable that Blair's potentially having knowingly misled Parliament wasn't investigated is an understatement. But, again, what does this make your point? That we should follow that example, and never investigate Prime Ministers for lying to the House, no matter over how small the matter is? Clearly not. We should surely hold our leaders to the highest standards of conduct. Blair got away with one. The lesson there is surely *never* to take potentially having lied to the House lightly.

[jim360]

Perhaps you should tell me what should be commanding my attention -- I personally think it's been quite useful for me to have dug into the circumstances surrounding the decision to go to War in Iraq more thoroughly than I have in a while.

But as for today, what matters is Johnson's conduct now, not Blair's conduct *then*, nor the conduct of Parliament *then*. It's too late to fix that mistake; we can only ensure never to repeat it, and to send a clear message that knowingly misleading Parliament will never be tolerated. Whether Johnson *knowingly* misled Parliament, then, is a relevant question that deserves an investigation and an answer.

[naomi24]

Jim, See my post at 9.40.

[davebro]

Lying about knowing of or attending a rule-breaking party doesn't quite have the same gravity as lying to send the country to war & causing 100s or 1000s of deaths. IMV

[naomi24]

Jim, //Perhaps you should tell me what should be commanding my attention //

Far be it from me. I know my place. I'm just one of the plebs.

[FatticusInch]

naomi24
//Jim, //Perhaps you should tell me what should be commanding my attention //

/Far be it from me. I know my place. I'm just one of the plebs./

Lol, as disingenuous as a Tory MP. Which flag is it you fly from the pole in your front garden?

[jim360]

I don't think I'll ever be considered anything over than a pleb, either, Naomi!

I clearly agree with davebro that lying about a War in which thousands died, when the effect of that lie was precisely to send the UK to War in which said thousands died, is orders of magnitude worse than lying over parties held in lockdown. Still, they are both lies; the distinction lies only in the consequences, not in the original offence.

[naomi24]

//Which flag is it you fly from the pole in your front garden? //

The union flag or the Cross of St George, fatticusinch, but only on special occasions.

Jim, you one of the plebs? Come on! It's me you're talking to. ;o)

[FatticusInch]

naomi24
//Which flag is it you fly from the pole in your front garden? //

/The union flag or the Cross of St George, fatticusinch, but only on special occasions./

Which will it be as Johnson touches down? Surely not the Union flag with its saltire on it?

[royfromaus]

Gardeners in the military, eh...who knew.