What Is A Woman?

[mushroom25]

we are supposed to be finding out the answer today - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgv8v5ge37o

although, what's the betting the learned m'luds fudge the issue?

[youngmafbog]

Well one things for sure Sir 2TK doesnt know.

[douglas9401]

A woman is anyone presenting Sports Personality of the Year for BBC.

[New Judge]

Whatever the answer, the most damning indictment on the state this country has got itself into is that the question needs to be asked.

[barry1010]

I was talking about this with my wife recently and agreed we were accepting of trans people, they have always been amongst us.  We watched the documentary about George's transition to Julia Grant in 1979 and were pleased to see Julia on 4 in a Bed in 2012, living a very normal life as a B&B owner.

My wife has noticed men in frocks in ladies' toilets a few times over the years but they weren't cause for alarm.  She tells me she didn't care as long as they behaved properly.   Things have changed, though.

She refuses to go to M&S for bra fittings now they allow men in to the changing rooms (there is only a curtain between the cubicles, no real privacy) - she was quite distressed the last time she went due to a man's behaviour.  She didn't see him so doesn't know how he presented himself.

We are both very against this wave of aggressively self-promoting transgender demanders who are trying to ride roughshod over women, competing as women in women's sports, taking over jobs that should rightfully only ever be done by women and invading groups/clubs/societies that are there to protect and support women who have experienced trauma at the hands of men.

We both think many transgender people who live like Julia Grant did (she died a couple of years ago) are also despairing of this trend - it must be making life very difficult for transgender people who want to live a quietly and privately.

We also believe that everyone should have the right to refuse to be medically examined, strip searched, counselled by anyone who isn't born the same sex as them.

Please do not call me CIS, I will not take kindly to it.  I am a man, no need for anything else to be added. 

A woman can only be somebody who was born female. 

 

[ToraToraTora]

never in the field of human idiocy have so many given so much credibility to so few.

If there is a Y chromosome present it's a man of not it's a woman, end of.

[Khandro]

Send them to me & I'll soon tell you.

[10ClarionSt]

A woman is someone whose birth certificate says the child is Female. Surely that's a woman isn't it?

[ToraToraTora]

you'd think so 10cs!

[10ClarionSt]

Having said that, it can be confusing for the maternity staff. When my second grandchild was born, a nurse brought the baby in put him in my son in laws arms and said congratulations. It's a boy! 15 mins later, the nurse came back and took him for some attention, and said I'm sorry, it's a girl. My SIL asked if she'd ever done this job before and was she aware of the difference between male and female? My granddaughter is now at uni in London!

[Old_Geezer]

The Scottish parliament and their judges have clearly lost their sanity and are urgently in need of compulsory replacement.

 

The certificate they refer to is about gender, as the word is used in psychological and psychiatric circles (as opposed to normal use by the public who know the word is a synonym for sex). As such it doesn't affect the sex of a person but indicates a failure of the holder's mind to accept reality, and a desire to live as the sex they aren't.

 

All sympathy to those afflicted, but they must admit the real situation to themselves and to others, and not use Newspeak to claim left is right, up is down, forward is backward, and/or male is female (or vice versa in each given example).

 

A civilised nation should never have come to this point. It seems to indicate one that is due to fall and be consigned to the history books any day now.

[ToraToraTora]

The problem with these modern "men" is they have no balls.

[Old_Geezer]

To me the definition of "woman" should include the fact of the passing of someone from childhood into adulthood. One wouldn't, for example, call a two year old female, a woman.

[10ClarionSt]

I knew 2 guys who had a sex change. I was totally stunned when I found out. I used to work closely with one of them and would never have guessed he was heading that way. I only found out when "she" approached once and said "Hi". At first I didn't twig it. Who is this "freindly" red head? I asked how she knew my name and she said: "I used to be Brian. Remember?" Oops! These things were still fairly rare. I just made an excuse and left. 

[jackthehat]

A ridiculous state of affairs driven by a small but vocal section of society and their 'be kind' handmaidens.

Women are adult human females - who were observed (not assigned) female at birth.

A determination of anything other than the above will destroy hard-won womens' rights and leave the door wide open for the encroachment of failed men into all areas of our life.

[naomi24]

We are allowing this ridiculous culture to make absolute fools of us - and our courts.   Even people who don't agree with it are expected to refer to a man as 'she' should he demand it.  We need to say 'no'.  Just 'no'. 

[Deskdiary]

From the link the Gender Recognition Act 2004 says when somebody gets a GRC...

 

"...if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person's sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender, the person's sex becomes that of a woman".

 

That is clearly bananas, and demonstrates that sometimes laws are just simply wrong. Unlike 'gender', which is a matter of opinion, sex is a matter of undeniable biological fact, and no law can change that fact.

 

The vast vast majority of people know that a woman is an adult female, so the fact that it needs the highest court in the land to decide what a woman is absurd. If they decide 'woman' includes men, that may be the law but it will not be the reality.

[New Judge]

Here, as is plain for all to see, is where it went so horribly wrong:

The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 established the process for obtaining a gender recognition certificate - something it states amounts to a change of sex “for all purposes”.

When someone gets a gender recognition certificate, "if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person's sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender, the person's sex becomes that of a woman". 

[My emphases]

It really does say that because I’ve checked – those very words are used in Section 9(1).

This is a ludicrous piece of legislation. Sex cannot be changed by words on a sheet of paper. The legislation is entitled “The Gender Recognition Act”. But the words above from Section 9(1) clearly indicate that it goes much further than that and recognises biological sex. 

Gender is a matter of opinion. Anybody is free to call themselves anything they want (and equally anybody is free to disagree with their opinion). But sex is an immutable fact and, barring in a really tiny number of cases which are not the issue here, it cannot be changed, and cerainly not by means of a "certificate". 

I have a suspicion that M’Learned Friends are going to come down on the side of the GR Act. It states quite clearly that where a person holds a GR Certificate, that person’s sex becomes that stated on the certificate.

It is said in the BBC article that this case relates to only a very narrow point of law. The case was brought because the Scottish government wanted to introduce “self-certification” for gender recognition and the UK government overrode that plan. But whatever the judges decide will have a profound impact on the entire gender identity fiasco.  

[mushroom25]

// A woman is someone whose birth certificate says the child is Female. Surely that's a woman isn't it? //

yes. but the 2004 act permits anyone with a GRC to apply for (and get) a fresh birth certificate recognising their transition.

[dave50]

I accept there are a minuscule number of people who who born in the wrong body, they need compassion and understanding. The rest are attention seekers who are unhappy and have social problems and think  that by proclaiming they are now the opposite gender to which they are born with will solve all their problems. They need psychiatric help. There are 2 sexes which match the appropriate genders, the end.

[chelle7272]

Great answer barry