Road rules0 min ago
stress-abh
my husband has been charged with abh and carring a lethal wepon, there was no actual damage done to the person just an indent of a knife on there neck, this was all brought on by stress from work and he is now off sick and taking tablets, there was a very similer event many years ago he ended up in a hospital for awhile he is a very good man, please any idea's as to the outcome of what his sentance might be from a very worried wife
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Well for starters there is no offence of carrying a lethal weapon in this country. It was probably either an offensive weapon or bladed article.
Further still if the ABH was caused by that weapon, he will not be convicted of both offences. Only the greater one, which will be the assault.
If found guilty the maximum is 5 years. The stress will not come in to it. Only mental illness where he does not comprehend the wrongness or "the quality of the act" will suffice under Victorian MacNaughton Rules.
The only defences he will have are mitigating such as provocation. With the limited details you have supplied I doubt reasonable force, whether self defence or protection etc, will be a defence.
My advice, as the greatest legal mind since Sherlock Holmes would be to plea bargin with the prosecution and go for a Sect 4 Public Order. Speak to his solicitor and pray this bargining is accepted. Guilty of Sect 4 POA (if not racially aggravated) should see no more than 6 months and maybe just a suspended sentance.
Further still if the ABH was caused by that weapon, he will not be convicted of both offences. Only the greater one, which will be the assault.
If found guilty the maximum is 5 years. The stress will not come in to it. Only mental illness where he does not comprehend the wrongness or "the quality of the act" will suffice under Victorian MacNaughton Rules.
The only defences he will have are mitigating such as provocation. With the limited details you have supplied I doubt reasonable force, whether self defence or protection etc, will be a defence.
My advice, as the greatest legal mind since Sherlock Holmes would be to plea bargin with the prosecution and go for a Sect 4 Public Order. Speak to his solicitor and pray this bargining is accepted. Guilty of Sect 4 POA (if not racially aggravated) should see no more than 6 months and maybe just a suspended sentance.
I think you need to instruct a solicitor as a matter of urgency - I would have to say that if a knife has been used in an assault AND this has caused actual bodily harm most prosecuters would be looking to send the case to the Crown Court - I know this is not want you want to hear but you need to get some legal advice pretty quick
I assume he is going guilty??
If not guilty then I disagree with seatrout. Always opt for crown court if not guilty for many reasons.
1) 10 people have to be convinced as opposed to one (or up to three) magistrates
2) It is harder to get an adjourment at crown court due to costs. So if witnesses do not show (including police and medical experts) there is a greater chance of the whole case being dropped.
3) If guilty at magistrates, then the sentancing (due to the severity of the incident and the maximum penalty for mags being 1 year custodial) will probably go to crown court anyway. Therefore it will make no difference.
4) You are guaranteed a barrister at crown court under legal aid. Yes, you may have one at mags, but often it is just a solicitor.
5) Legal priveledge and better leagl argument is always better at crown.
So, if going not guilty crown court is a blessing in disguise. Trust me.
If not guilty then I disagree with seatrout. Always opt for crown court if not guilty for many reasons.
1) 10 people have to be convinced as opposed to one (or up to three) magistrates
2) It is harder to get an adjourment at crown court due to costs. So if witnesses do not show (including police and medical experts) there is a greater chance of the whole case being dropped.
3) If guilty at magistrates, then the sentancing (due to the severity of the incident and the maximum penalty for mags being 1 year custodial) will probably go to crown court anyway. Therefore it will make no difference.
4) You are guaranteed a barrister at crown court under legal aid. Yes, you may have one at mags, but often it is just a solicitor.
5) Legal priveledge and better leagl argument is always better at crown.
So, if going not guilty crown court is a blessing in disguise. Trust me.
Sorry Ward Minter I think you got the wrong end of the stick - if this is a not guilty plea I am sure the prosecuter would ask for it to go up to ythe Crown Court. If its a guilty plea and as he appears to have done something similar before the Magistrtates would probably send it up for a dangerous offender assessment. Either way he is deep in it and needs to get legal advice asap
I�ll try to restore some order and cut through some of the confusion, pamies.
The offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm is what is known as an �either-way� offence. This means it may be dealt with either at the magistrates� court or at the Crown Court. Where it is eventually handled depends, essentially, upon the magistrates� view of the seriousness of the offence.
Your husband will be asked to enter his plea before the magistrates.
If he pleads not guilty the magistrates decide whether to retain jurisdiction or to send the matter to the Crown Court for trial. If they retain jurisdiction your husband will still be able to opt for a trial by jury at the Crown Court (but he does not have the right to be tried by the magistrates if they decline jurisdiction). If he is found guilty following a trial at the magistrates� court, he can still be sent to the Crown Court for sentencing if, after hearing the case, the Bench decides that the offence warrants greater punishment than they can impose.
If he pleads guilty he will either be sentenced by the magistrates or by a judge at the Crown Court. In either case if he is sentenced by magistrates their maximum is 6 months custody (not twelve as Ward-Minter erroneously states).
In the event of a guilty plea they will ask the probation service to prepare a report on your husband. At this stage the Bench has to decide whether to reserve the right to send your husband to the Crown Court for sentencing. Even if they do reserve this right, they do not have to send him to Crown Court when they eventually pass sentence. However, if they do not reserve the right at the reports stage they cannot send him subsequently, whatever the report may say.
Now move on to part two for what I see as the likely outcome.
The offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm is what is known as an �either-way� offence. This means it may be dealt with either at the magistrates� court or at the Crown Court. Where it is eventually handled depends, essentially, upon the magistrates� view of the seriousness of the offence.
Your husband will be asked to enter his plea before the magistrates.
If he pleads not guilty the magistrates decide whether to retain jurisdiction or to send the matter to the Crown Court for trial. If they retain jurisdiction your husband will still be able to opt for a trial by jury at the Crown Court (but he does not have the right to be tried by the magistrates if they decline jurisdiction). If he is found guilty following a trial at the magistrates� court, he can still be sent to the Crown Court for sentencing if, after hearing the case, the Bench decides that the offence warrants greater punishment than they can impose.
If he pleads guilty he will either be sentenced by the magistrates or by a judge at the Crown Court. In either case if he is sentenced by magistrates their maximum is 6 months custody (not twelve as Ward-Minter erroneously states).
In the event of a guilty plea they will ask the probation service to prepare a report on your husband. At this stage the Bench has to decide whether to reserve the right to send your husband to the Crown Court for sentencing. Even if they do reserve this right, they do not have to send him to Crown Court when they eventually pass sentence. However, if they do not reserve the right at the reports stage they cannot send him subsequently, whatever the report may say.
Now move on to part two for what I see as the likely outcome.
Part Two
This is a serious offence and your husband would be well advised to seek legal representation. Recent changes in the Legal Aid rules (2nd October) mean that legal aid is now means tested and is not automatic. This is regardless of the offence or the venue and is at odds again with Ward-Minter�s advice.
From the very brief outline you have provided I would imagine that a solicitor would advise a guilty plea, with heavy mitigation. He would also do his best to persuade the magistrates to rule out the option of sending the matter to Crown Court for sentencing.
Magistrate�s sentencing guidelines suggest that cases should be sent to the Crown Court where there is �the use of a weapon of the kind likely to cause serious injury�. Clearly a knife fits the bill. However, they will hear a proper outline of the case and, although both the prosecution and defence may make representations, the decision is a judicial one and a matter for the magistrates alone. I would say that they may well be persuaded to retain the matter for sentencing.
As far as the sentence itself goes, magistrates� guidelines have a �starting point� of custody for this offence. However this is for an �average� offence committed by a first time offender pleading not guilty. A guilty plea, together with the mitigation you have outlined should be enough to sway the magistrates into imposing a community-based sentence.
My own view is that if your husband is advised to plead guilty he should do so at the earliest opportunity (and gain maximum credit for having done so). He should not go down the �Not Guilty� or �Crown Court� paths. Little of what Ward-Minter says about the advantages of going to Crown Court is valuable advice and on balance defendants are usually well advised to steer clear of the Crown Court where possible � especially if they are guilty. You don�t have to �stand on me� to be assured of this. Just ask any
This is a serious offence and your husband would be well advised to seek legal representation. Recent changes in the Legal Aid rules (2nd October) mean that legal aid is now means tested and is not automatic. This is regardless of the offence or the venue and is at odds again with Ward-Minter�s advice.
From the very brief outline you have provided I would imagine that a solicitor would advise a guilty plea, with heavy mitigation. He would also do his best to persuade the magistrates to rule out the option of sending the matter to Crown Court for sentencing.
Magistrate�s sentencing guidelines suggest that cases should be sent to the Crown Court where there is �the use of a weapon of the kind likely to cause serious injury�. Clearly a knife fits the bill. However, they will hear a proper outline of the case and, although both the prosecution and defence may make representations, the decision is a judicial one and a matter for the magistrates alone. I would say that they may well be persuaded to retain the matter for sentencing.
As far as the sentence itself goes, magistrates� guidelines have a �starting point� of custody for this offence. However this is for an �average� offence committed by a first time offender pleading not guilty. A guilty plea, together with the mitigation you have outlined should be enough to sway the magistrates into imposing a community-based sentence.
My own view is that if your husband is advised to plead guilty he should do so at the earliest opportunity (and gain maximum credit for having done so). He should not go down the �Not Guilty� or �Crown Court� paths. Little of what Ward-Minter says about the advantages of going to Crown Court is valuable advice and on balance defendants are usually well advised to steer clear of the Crown Court where possible � especially if they are guilty. You don�t have to �stand on me� to be assured of this. Just ask any
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ward-minter : Sect 4 public order what is this ?
Judgej : My husband goes to magistrates court 25th of this month his previous was 14yrs ago due to a breakdown he hit his ex wife with a stick he went to magistrates straite from there to st Annes mental hospital spent several weeks there, went back to court he got 1yr probation, (with therapy that never happened) This again is a breakdown, he went to a friends daughter (17) with the intension of something sexual (not rape) he pulled her hair and put the knife to her throat from behind there was only an indent from the knife on her neck no cuts, a very short time after this he said he came to his senses and thought WHAT AM I DOING, then tried to comfort the girl, at no time did anything sexual take place the girl backed this up totally he denied nothing he told them everything, he has been off work sick sinse with stress,they have not charged him with anything sexual as nothing sexual took place, thats it in a nutshell,
his solicitor did say briefly perhaps pleading guilty to commom assult, but we did only see him for a few minutes, the solicitor said now he has been charged which has taken 4 weeks for CPS to decide on what to charge him with they will be able to see all the papers and find out how they defined ABH being the charge,the solicitor will be intouch with him after they have seen them,
probably the only ABH is mental to the young girl, we have known the family for a long time now i can understand the problems this has brought on them being a mother myself(we are not in contact with them now bail restriction) but the young girls family and myself know this is not normal behavour from my husband he is such a loving gental person
So what would pleading common assult do?
ward-minter : Sect 4 public order what is this ?
Judgej : My husband goes to magistrates court 25th of this month his previous was 14yrs ago due to a breakdown he hit his ex wife with a stick he went to magistrates straite from there to st Annes mental hospital spent several weeks there, went back to court he got 1yr probation, (with therapy that never happened) This again is a breakdown, he went to a friends daughter (17) with the intension of something sexual (not rape) he pulled her hair and put the knife to her throat from behind there was only an indent from the knife on her neck no cuts, a very short time after this he said he came to his senses and thought WHAT AM I DOING, then tried to comfort the girl, at no time did anything sexual take place the girl backed this up totally he denied nothing he told them everything, he has been off work sick sinse with stress,they have not charged him with anything sexual as nothing sexual took place, thats it in a nutshell,
his solicitor did say briefly perhaps pleading guilty to commom assult, but we did only see him for a few minutes, the solicitor said now he has been charged which has taken 4 weeks for CPS to decide on what to charge him with they will be able to see all the papers and find out how they defined ABH being the charge,the solicitor will be intouch with him after they have seen them,
probably the only ABH is mental to the young girl, we have known the family for a long time now i can understand the problems this has brought on them being a mother myself(we are not in contact with them now bail restriction) but the young girls family and myself know this is not normal behavour from my husband he is such a loving gental person
So what would pleading common assult do?
You can ignore the suggestion Ward-Minter makes about public order offences. From what you say this incident took place inside a house. Public Order Offences (as you might imagine) can only be committed in public places, not in your own or anybody else�s home.
If your husband is offered the chance to plead guilty to Common Assault he should grab the opportunity with both hands. The prosecution sometimes offer to lay a lesser charge in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. Common Assault is a far less serious charge which can only be heard at the magistrates� court. It is still an imprisonable offence (maximum six months) but the magistrates� sentencing guidelines provide a starting point of a Community Penalty and unless there are considerable aggravating features this is what magistrates generally award. They may even be inclined to dispose of the matter by way of a fine or a Conditional Discharge if it can be shown in mitigation that no injury took place, that the action was impulsive, and was brought on by your husband�s mental state.
If your husband is offered the chance to plead guilty to Common Assault he should grab the opportunity with both hands. The prosecution sometimes offer to lay a lesser charge in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. Common Assault is a far less serious charge which can only be heard at the magistrates� court. It is still an imprisonable offence (maximum six months) but the magistrates� sentencing guidelines provide a starting point of a Community Penalty and unless there are considerable aggravating features this is what magistrates generally award. They may even be inclined to dispose of the matter by way of a fine or a Conditional Discharge if it can be shown in mitigation that no injury took place, that the action was impulsive, and was brought on by your husband�s mental state.
Thank you so much JudgeJ there just may be a light at the end of the tunnel after all, at least we know a good bit more now of what to expect , i will leave this open and put on any more imformation if we get any from his solicitor , or do you need any more imformation , do you think it will be all over and done with when we go to the magistrates on the 25th or will my husband have to go back to court a few times
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