shoplifting charge

[spk]

My friends sister was charged with shoplifting at the weekend, they took �22.00 worth of stuff and got caught, they got charged and now have a pending conviction. They admitted it, put their hands up, cooperated fully with the police, and were apparently told they will hopefully get off with a fine and a caution as it was a first offence. They were charged and have a police record now, but my friend is worried sick and I dont know what to tell her. What are the possible realistic outcomes for her? I cant imagine her going to prison as she pleaded guilty, but what may potentially happen? Will it go to court?
Tia

[jno]

it's just possible it may not go to court at all and she'll get a police caution, which means that if she gets into more trouble it may be brought up again but otherwise she's free to go. Or she could go to court and be fined. I wouldn't have thought prison very likely for a first offence. But these things depend a lot on local practice - police, magistrates, retailers.

[gasman]

I hope so, and i hope they throw the book at your friend. In the end it is us who have to pay for the shoplifters by the increased prices on the shelves due to retailers trying to get their money back from stolen goods. If you can't do the time then dont do the crime !!! Your friend has every right to be worried and she deserves it.

[spk]

I know gasman and I agree, shes gone off the rails a bit lately and its the final straw.

Thats what shes been told jno due to her personal circumstances. I think she should go and see a lawyer to find out where she stands and what may happen.

[jake-the-peg]

The magistrates guidelines for theft recommend a community penalty (based on a first time offender pleading not guilty).

Mitigating factors are in cases where it is low value and an impulsive action - she should stress the impulsive action angle.

Agravating factors are if it's planned or a sophisticated arangement.

So in this case I'd expect that if it went to court she'd just get a fine.

If the details you've given are accurate (That is she didn't thump a policeman or something) I'd say there was pretty much zero chance of prison

[spk]

Cheers Jake- I doubt she thumped anyone, she had just lost her job, apologised, and said it was a moment of madness, and pleaded guilty. When they read her the riot act my friend said she just said 'sorry'.

I think shes more concerned about having a criminal conviction for the rest of her days

Is a charge the same as a conviction?

[larkin]

Sorry, can't help spk, but hope your friend gets off the hook and sorted soon. Everyone does something rash once in a while - doesn't really warrant a charge or custodial sentence in my books- especially if it is a first offence.

[spk]

Thanks Larkin, I hope so too I feel sorry for her shes not a bad person just bloomin stupid.

[larkin]

there are a lot of us about , spk !! :0D

[jno]

I think you're arrested, the police look into it and may decide to press charges (I'm unclear whether this has happened to your friend yet) or may just decide to let her off with a formal caution.

If they do press charges she'll be summoned to court where the charges will be read out and she'll be asked to plead guilty or not guilty. If she pleads guilty the court will then sentence her (probably not to prison); if she pleads not guilty they'll hold a full-scale trial (not right away, they'll want to prepare their evidence properly, and your friend will probably want to see a lawyer). She may be found not guilty by the court (sounds unlikely) or guilty, in which case she'll be sentenced at the end of the trial - still probably not to prison, though.

So I expect she's still got some worrying to do - rightly so - but I doubt anything very bad will happen. If she does it again she'll be in a lot more trouble, though.

Even is she goes to court and pleads guilty it might be worth getting a lawyer to address the court and talk about the things you mentioned - impulse, lost her job etc. Or she may prefer to save money and do it herself, if she's a reasonably confident speaker. She'd get the chance to do this before being sentenced and the magistrates would take into account what they'd heard about her.

[spk]

Thanks jno- The police are sending a report through to the prosecutor fiscale?? (I have no idea what that is or how to say or spell it, sorry) And told her next thing she will be getting a letter through from them telling her whats happening. They said its likely to take a month or two, while it knocks about their office and the fiscale dudes office. Apparently the police told her they will send through a positive report for her though.

I dont know what shes going to do while applying for new jobs though, I suppose shes innocent until proven guilty but its still a pending charge or conviction no matter what way you sugar coat it.

[jno]

certainly not a pending conviction, not until she's been found guilty. At the moment she's innocent of anything and not even charged with anything.

If she's ever going to the USA, the Yanks demand to know if you've ever been arrested - not charged, not convicted, just arrested - and will demand that you get a visa if you have. There's occasional debate on AB about whether you should just not tell them and hope the nosy burgers won't find out. Your friend should be aware of this, though.

[almcd007]

No a charge is an official allegation that someone committed a crime and has to be answered in court.

A conviction is the outcome of the charge if founf guilty in court. Your conviction stays with you for 5 years until it is deemed as being spent and cannot be used or considered (under normal circumstances) in sentancing for a subsequent crime.

[jake-the-peg]

Prosecutor fiscale? do you mean Procurator fiscal?

Are you in Scotland?

The Guidelines I quoted are England and Wales - I don't know about the Scottish System but it is different in a number of ways.

I wouldn't imagine the outcome would be very different though.

[liquidspace]

with regard to the post saying that you cannot get into America without telling them of your arrest and obtaining a visa, what happens if you fail to do this - for example if you didnt realise you had to disclose it - how could they find out?

[jno]

well, in theory the UK government hands information over to the USA - part of the 'war on terror'. In practice, I don't know.

Normally, you just fill out the visa waiver form on the plane and they look at it when you land and let you in. You don't qualify for the waiver if you've been arrested, so you have to apply for a visa, tell them what happened, and hope they'll give you one. (They won't necessarily refuse.)

If it was me, I think I'd just get on the plane, fill out the form and hope John Reid had kept his mouth shut. But I don't know how much information actually does get passed to Washington, so I really don't know if this would work or not. It's been asked a few times under Travel and I don't think anyone has said they've been refused entry.