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thanks booldawg, i use a berghaus jacket that is not lined, which is fine going to work, but on the scenic route home is too hot, as i like too try and beat me time, so cycle like mad, ialways wear cycling shorts, but me legs never get cold, and a thinsulate hat, i never liked cycling helmets, especially in this weather as they seem to channel the cold air onto me shaved head, gloves are usually the problem, i like the fingerless ones, but the ends of them do get a bit numb, if ever i get cold its because i'm not cycling hard enough