Horse Ownership

[horsestache1]

I was given a horse in February of this year, well I say given I was begged to take him, as the owners (!) could'nt cope with him, plus they were moving to the USA later in the year. He was in a bit of a state, and quite a handful. I must add that he is not the type of horse that I would normally have. However he has fitted in with my others very well, and of course I have fallen in love with him. I have also spent quite a lot of money on him as he had not been vaccinated, wormed, or been checked by a vet for quite a while. He also did not have a passport (a requirement for all horses by law) I had to pay for his passport which is in my name. Yesterday I was contacted by a lady who claims that the horse is her's and that he was only on loan to the people I got him from. She said that though she has not seen him for over two years, she was worried when she "noticed" that he had gone from his usual keeping place. The first thing she asked me is did I want to buy him. I sadi that I had had him for nearly 8 months, and considered that I had been given him. She then said that this was OK and that she just wanted to know that he was been looked after, but she asked me to drew up an agreement saying that the horse belonged to her. I asked to see his papers, and she said that she had given all documentation to the people I got him from and that they had not passed them on to me. I find this very hard to believe as the owner normally keeps the papers. She then said that she did not want him back, and wanted to make sure that I did not keep him for a few year and just phone her up one day and say come and get him. She then asked me to buy him again. Where do I stand legally on this, who's horse is he? Any help would be appriciated as I'm worried sick, as far as I'm concerned he's my horse.

[auzzie]

If she was the owner of this horse, she would have the passport and vaccination papers. No one would hand these over for a horse on loan, why would you do that? I don't know the legalities in this but my gut instinct would be to dig your heals in. Has she got an agreement about the loan with the people you got the horse from? Why would the previous owners beg you to have it when the simplest thing for them would have been to hand it back to the owner? I would hang on to it until it has been proved that it is hers. Let her do this. IF she can prove this, i would consider sending her the bill for all that you have spent on it, as any agreement that she said was in force, was not with you. Good luck and hang on in there. She clearly does not want it.

[horsestache1]

Thanks Auzzie, this is exactly what I think, she has no proof that the horse is her's and I feel I'm just been asked to buy him form her (give her money), It seems this is all she is interested in. But I just wanted to check how I stood legally. And I want to keep the horse, as he's now part of the family.

[beryllium]

Hi horsetache 1, it certainly does sound like a scam. The horse you say, was in a terrible state when you got him, so he wasn't looked after until he came to you. I think you should get in contract with the ILPH as well and ask if they're aware of any scams from these people. To me it screams of pikeys and the horse was probably stolen in the first place.
Best of luck and hang on to him. Are you protected with CCTV? since they know your phone number they have your address aswell then.
I'm glad he's with you now.

[horsestache1]

Thanks to both In A Pickle and Beryllium. The more you think about it the more it does sound like a scam. However the people who gave the horse to me, did move to the USA, so I know that they are not involved, however any of us could go up to someone and say "that's my horse" Its quite frightening!

I do not have CCTV, but to get to the yard you do have to go straight past the house, and i have two large noisy (but daft) dogs. I hope this will be enough of a deterrant.

I think I will contact the ILPH, for advice, great idea. And I will certainly fight to keep him.

[WoWo]

Tell her you have already send him to the Glue factiry and you will send her a pritt stick by way of compensation.

[joko]

the onus is on her to prove ownership and provide you with evidence.

tell her to come back when she has this.

do you have contact for th cpuple in usa?

[Eve]

Try here...http://www.whitepages.com.

You may be able to trace the people who gave the horse to you.

Good luck!

[noxlumos]

As you may know we run a small horse rescue and we've had similar things in the past to this and it's actually not so clear cut a situation as you might think, BUT the main thing is that possesion is 9/10ths of the law.
We had a horse "donated" again in a poor state, signed over to us by a woman. About 6 months later her ex husband turns up and says he's come for his horse. We took legal advice and it could have easily gone to court because prior to Feb last year I think it was, horses needed no passports, indeed if you don't move them anywhere I believe they still don't, so his lack of passport proves nothing either in our case or in yours. If your "owner" comes up with a bill of sale from someone saying that they actually purchased the horse from them then you are looking at the legal owner ( even if they got their brother to write it out). However, brazen it out like we did. Make sure they can't get access to ther horse, as if they take it, the police will NOT intervene and retrieve it for you, they'll tell you it's a civil matter.Just dig your heels in and whatever you do, don't sign a damned thing. Tell em you don't think they are the horse's owners and don't discuss it further. After a couple of S****y letter our bloke went away, so lets hope yours does too.
If this genuinely is the owner however, they would have had to give his passport to the people you had him off as anytime he is moved ( show etc) his passort is supposed to go with him, we ourselves have some on loan ( owners are undergoing long term medical treatment or unable to look after them at present for other reasons) and have their passports.
I'd just do nothing and let her make all the running, but DON'T sign anything.

[horsestache1]

Thanks Noxlumos, You are right I will not sign anything, besides I have his passport as I paid for it, it has my name on it.

I do find it odd however that she claims to be his owner, when she cannot even get his breed right, she says he is a Dales Pony, when both myself and my vet say he's a Welsh Cob D !!!!!!! (he is black but has 4 white socks and a white star!)

[madman06]

tell who ever says they r the horses owner they owe you �1.000 for looking after it,and al the vets fees r included,blah blah blah and see what happens GOOD LUCK AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE SAVED THE HORSE,PS TELL HER TO **** OFF,AND PROVE IT

[lizzydrippin]

Please God let the horse stay with you. I hope thats where he still is now in December.