daughter's accident - who's fault - advice please!

[jimmerjammer]

In January this year my 21 year old daughter was coming out of a car park waiting on a minor road to turn left onto a dual carriageway where the first lane was a bus lane and so she turned into the second lane. A young man who was travelling on the otherside of the dual carriageway turned right from the central reservation to travel in the same direction as my daughter and they had a bump. She had not yet got out of second gear and was travelling between 5-10mph. She had a minor scratch to her front drivers side but the young man said that he had damage and that it was her fault as he was expecting her to turn into the bus lane. He then rang to say that it was �500 worth of damage and my daughter said that he needed to go through the insurance company. We heard nothing. Last week she received two letters from a company called Helphire acting for this young man claiming uninsured losses. Apparently they hire out cars and charge insurance companies large amounts of money for the pleasure. But we had not heard anything from any insurance company up until this point. Does anyone know who may be responsible in this situation. I just feel that the young man has used this situation to his advance for repairs and that her insurance company will probably pay as it's a small amount, but I don't feel it was her fault and it will obviously affect her 3 year NCD. Any thoughts would be great. Many thanks.

[Toureman]

From your description it is hard to tell if your daughter was travelling on the main road and the young man was doing a U turn into the same road, if he was then he is at fault.

[jimmerjammer]

Hello Toureman - I was wondering if I explained it properly!

Basically she was waiting to turn left ONTO the dual carriageway and the young man was travelling on the otherside of the carriageway using the central reservation area to turn right - travelling in the same direction as my daughter.

Does that make a bit more sense? Sorry if I am not being clear!

[Grunty]

I think Toureman was asking whether the man was turning right, i.e into the road that your daughter had come from or making a u-turn into the road that she had turned into. I don't think that is the point as a u-turn does not necessarily put him in the wrong unless it is prohibited. What does put him in the wrong is his remark that he expected her to turn into the bus lane. He cannot use as an excuse that he expected someone else to break the law. By that remark, he has also admitted that he saw your daughter's car and made no effort to avoid it. It sounds like a case where he had damaged his car elsewhere and wanted your daughter to pay for it.

[jimmerjammer]

Oh sorry - yes he was turning right into the road my daughter had just turned into - i.e. he was doing a U turn - what I can't seem to find in the Highway Code is whether the person turning left (i.e. my daughter) has right of way first or whether neither has and it's a question of both having to be aware of the other?
If he was not there when she was first at the junction to turn left, surely then it is her right of way as he arrived after she started to turn?

Has anyone heard of Helphire? they are very persistent in their letters!

[mrknowall]

How can it affect her no claims ?
My NCD doesnt get affeced for one bump.

[jimmerjammer]

I think that is probably because she is only 21 and therefore not given the option to pay an additional cost to protect her NCD.

[mrknowall]

ok
You say the other driver was doing a u turn on the dual carriageway?
Like toureman said i would play on this with your insurance its a dangerous maneuver which all junctions on dual carriageways have signs for no u turns

[Harveypool]

I'd go with Grunty on this one. The other guy has in effect admitted that he saw your daughter already by saying he was expecting her to go into the bus lane. Ask your daughter to draw 3 diagrams, one before the incident, one just before impact and one after the impact. Also add in anything the other person said i.e. "i thought you were going into the bus lane" and names and addresses of any witnesses. Then put in a counter claim. Be prepared to fight it all the way though.

[derekpara]

Can I pose a question here ?

Was the bus lane in force ? They only operate between certain periods and the one in question could have been open to all traffic at the time of this incident. However, I don't think affects the result; the young man was at fault, in my opinion, but it could explain why he 'thought' your daughter was turning into lane one.

[Keeprockin]

you pay a lot of money to your insurance,let them deal with it,and don't let them fob you off with accepting the blame if you believe otherwise. I'm still not sure of the explanation,but, A driver cannot make manouvers on the presumption of what he/she thinks another driver is going to do.

[jimmerjammer]

Hello. Thank you for all your comments.
I am not sure if the bus lane was in force at the time, the only way to find that out I suppose is to ask the police?
She rang the insurance company yesterday and they didn't help her with the Helphire situation at all, and just said that they would contact his insurance company. I am very confused now. They are only doing this because she has had to make a claim due to these letters - even though she has little damage and it's not worth it.

The central reservation is there for people either turning right (U turn) or for going straight over the dual carriageway.
I think the issue is he was not there when she first arrived at the junction to turn left and then when they hit each other he said that he was expecting her to turn into the bus lane - that I was say means he was not driving with due care and attention as he must have made the turn very quickly.

I don't know how you stop them from paying out if they don't think it's worth it. It seems Tesco don't send out claim forms and you just do it by phone which is infuriating because we want to write it down to make sure they know she was not at fault. They merely said to her that fault would be established by the two insurance companies.

Very annoying

[jimmerjammer]

"- that I was say means he was not driving with due care and attention as he must have made the turn very quickly."

????

Sorry - finger trouble there - I wanted to say that as far as I can see that must mean he was not driving with due care and attention.....

[BreenM]

All I'll say on this is you can use "I expected you to do something else" as an excuse for it being someone elses fault. He obviously seen your daughter at least making her manover so should have waited util that was complete. If she was already on the road when he staretd his right turn then it has to be his fault. That's my reckoning. I wouldn't give in to this and woud seek advice from your daughters insurance company.

[dusty1]

As an ex driving instructor I would say he was at fault as both drivers should have treated it as a normal cross roads ie. for him to turn right he would have to cross her path, so she would have right of way even if she was going straight across, and I think it will possibly say this either in the hyway code or the police training manua.
hope this helpsl