Humiliation

[Lonnie]

With the current crisies with Iran, How many A/Bers feel the humiliation of this country?,

At present, this coutries esteem in the world, is at its lowest in history, and right now, I actually feel ashamed at the goverments handling of the crisis, I know this is an article in the Mail, and Max Hastings, but its interesting reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=445756&in_p age_id=1811

[Philtaz]

It's usual form. A Labour government would be the last to back up its troops in a crisis, they're more concerned with putting them in harms way without the kit to do the job then prosecuting them for war crimes!
The Iranians knew full well what they were doing. They wouldn't have dreamt of doing the same to an American patrol, they'd have had half the US Air Force on the scene in minutes.
As for the UN expressing 'deep concerns', that's akin to being savaged by a tortoise.
I'm just glad that when I served in HM Forces we had a strong Prime Minister who would back her troops to the hilt and would leave no stone unturned in ensuring their swift release in such a crisis.

[Oakleaf51]

We have no option but to grovel and apologise, and that we must do to get our people back.

In future, none of our people should ever be operating in any circumstances, unless covered by the fire power of the parent ship, and the rules of engagement should be left to the ships captain. Shame on Britain.

[jno]

It's not as simple as it seems. Apparently there is no agreed border between Iran and Iraq, so any attempt to patrol the area is risky. The usual rule is that a country's maritime rights extend out to sea for 12km; but this happened within 12km of both Iraq and Iran - meaning that both Ahmadinejad and Blair are 'right'. It also appears from the maps that it may have happened closer to Iran than to Iraq.

Under normal circumstances, I suppose Britain and the US would have tried gunboat diplomacy. But thanks to the war in Iraq itself (as well as the action in Afghanistan), both are already militarily overstretched; and because of the lies that they used to justify it, nobody really believes Bush and Blair anymore. That's tough; but they are paying the price of their own actions.

It may be worth pointing out that it is not just the two leaders: both have been re-elected since beginning the war. So we, the voters, can all take our share of the blame.

[Toureman]

To answer your question, NO, I never feel humiliated with our country.

Pity we havn't got a Maggy in charge though, she didn't mess around like this lot.

[Lonnie]

I agree with all the ansers given so far, thanks for responding, but epecially jno's, for reminding us that we gave Blair the mandate by re-electing him,

I never voted for him, but as part of a Democracy, (majority rules), I accept the final decision.

[admarlow]

We cannot be seen to bow to these terrorist kidnappers I know we need to "play by the rules" but come on, the Iranians as well as the rest of the world know that the sailors should have never been abducted apart from it being against the law. Im hoping the SAS spring them (yes I know that will never happen!!)

[Lonnie]

My view, is that, as has been said, we can't bow down to the Bullies of Iran, who are just trying to pick a fight with the west.

I've said in a previous post, that I think that the SAS, (for releasing our troops), or going after their Nuclear facilities, (too wide spread), is not an option. We should take out one of their Naval Bases, because, like it or not, what the Iranians did, was an act of war, and even if we are not at present at war with them, they are with us.

[Hugh Spencer]

I agree with jno, the leadership of this country is bad, remembering how we coped with anything thrown at us in the past. How anyone, unless they have stopped using their brains and can't think for themselves, could think of voting the Labour Party back into power is beyond my reasoning. Look at the manifesto of the UKIP.

[whiffey]

Yes, Britain looks absolutely stupid - but what can we do ? Absolutely nothing. There is no military or SAS option. Is it going to take a nuclear bomb on Tel Aviv to shake the USA up into getting in there and taking out this evil regime ?

[whiffey]

My my my infundibulum - do you live in the West, do you have a comfortable armchair ?

Christ from the cross pleaded for forgiveness for those who were crucifying him. Do you imagine that now he is encouraging and condoling those who wish to eradicate Israel and the West ? Let us go as lambs to the slaughter, in which you are as likely to be a victim of Allah's sword as I am.

[Lonnie]

infundibulum, in reply, how many of the Iranian leadership, who ordered the capture of our troops are male?, does it really matter?.

[Philtaz]

Oh dear, I knew it would all go pear shaped as soon the word God was mentioned!

As for armchair warrior, I like to think I 'did my bit' during my 8 years in the Army.

Which branch of the Armed Forces or war zone did you serve in infundibulum? After all, you do appear to have an exclusive experience of seeing copious amounts of blood being spilt.

[matt66]

After the last 200 years of the UK history a little humble pie would not go amiss...so thinks the rest of the world. A shift in the worlds power base is good for this world. Time for us to feel the heat of someone elses mistakes. You got one person to blame for that and it is Tony Blair.

[Gromit]

We have picked fights with 2 small countries backed up by the worlds bully, and we are losing both fights. Of course we are humilated and nobody takes us seriously anymore. Our standing throughout the world is low because of Blairs disasterous foreign policies, in fighting 2 pointless wars, it just makes it worse that we are losing them. The fact that the likes of Iran are prepared to stand up and out eyeball us just shows how much damage has been done to our reputation. Meanwhile the grinning one worries about his 'legacy', well he should.

[maxximus]

admarlow, since when does protecting ones soverign countries international border make one a terrorist kidnapper? your flippant use of the word ' terrorist ' always astounds me. try entering the u.s. or the u.k. armed, without a visa and see how far you get. u.k. citizen's have to forward their fingerprints to enter the u.s. now,no. lonnie, i'm surprised, the idea of accusing iran of being the bully or that their actions could be viewed as an act of war in the present situation, is frankly laughable. infundibulum, i like your shtyle girl!! assuming you are, that is. yes whiffey, you have made it abundantly clear that you have a nicer comfortable armchair than most, or you've got an armchair fetish. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?It emID=12467

[Lonnie]

maxximus, obviously we all have different viewpoints, be boring otherwise. My stand is, assuming our troops were in Iranian waters, all the Iranian gunboats had to do, was tell them, and warn them to get onto the right side, but they didn't, did they.

Iran knows that if it had been Americans, there would have been some sort of military action, they also knew, that the british, in this situation would give in, which is what happened, and they knew our country now, militarily, is overstreched, and a Toothless Bulldog.

Knowing that we wouldn't retaliate, is, in my view what precipitated their actions, and that, to my way of thinking, is bullying, or trying to bully.

[maxximus]

it would appear that the u.s. military is stretched pretty damn thin also, having already used up their reserves and other weekend warriors. they are being forced to put together a new elite squad http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jse ssionid=D12DL2OCMGQ0DQFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/ news/2007/03/13/wirq113.xml i would assume the iranian's want no part of a third world war that the u.s. seems hellbent on. in order to diffuse this madness with diplomacy and international law, it makes sense they would rather deal with the british rather than the u.s. or israel. as the previous article points out iran is the victim here and the u.s. and it's allies are the epitimy of ' the bully ' the chances of a diplomatic outcome with the brits have a much higher chance of a positive outcome, than with their options. in keeping with international law, iran to date has done nothing wrong. on the other hand....