Parents giving alcohol to children under 15 should be illegal

[AB Asks]

A charity wants a law to prevent parents giving children under 15 alcohol. A study has shown a large increase in the amount of alcohol drank by 11 to 13 year-olds. The charity, Alcohol Concern, would include giving alcohol to children with a meal in the ban. What do you think? Is this going to help discourage binge drinking later in life? Or this is an unreasonable request that will make children want to experience alcohol outside the home without adult supervision even more?

[Gromit]

I do not know why the British have such a problem with alcohol. When you are abroad, every other nation seems to be able to have a drink without over-doing it. The Brits by contrast, drink to excess and become abnoxious, and makes you embarrassed to be British.

Like the smoking debate, I would target the parent instead of the children. Get the parents drinking responsibly, and their offspring should follow.

In France, wine is given to children at the dinner table and I think they have less binge drinking and drunken yobbery in their youth, than we do.

[Pippa68]

I have always thought the same, Gromit.

As a youngster I was also given wine at the dinner table, although mainly on a Sunday..and I have never had a problem with alcohol.

[jake-the-peg]

How do you know that Grommit? it seems to be one of those things that people say based on media reports and what they see on holiday, and we tend to accept it at face value.

Alcohol killed

8,500 in the UK in 2005
23,000 a year in France

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id =1091 (UK)
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=14713 (FR)

So perhaps the French giving children wine at an early age actually reinforces alchol concern's case.

From a personal perspective I certainly started drinking young in a social context and although I've been dry for many years now I was dependant on alcohol - however I think I'd have been the same if I'd started later - I tend to think starting early is a symptom of somebody who has a tendancy to become alcoholic rather than a cause - but I have no compelling evidence for that other than personal experience.

If that's true fining people who's kids are out getting drunk is likely to be about as effective in reducing alcoholism as fining people who have short sighted children would be in improving eyecare.

[anotheoldgit]

Once again it is because over the last couple of decades or so the powers that be have let standards slip to an all time low in this country.

Years ago when drink was a lot stronger , there wasn't such a problem as there is today. This was because the police conducted a zero tolerance attitude towards drunken behavour. In the local press it was not unusual to read of individuals who had been accused of drunken behavour, imprisoned overnight, before the beak in the morning and to be then fined a sum of money. But these cases were few and far between, and the accused was mainly an individual who was well known throughout the town, for such behavour.

If there was any persistence trouble in or outside any pub, the landlord had his licence taken off him.
This is what should happen to some of these pubs and clubs, that seem to have a somewhat lenient attitude towards drunkenness and drugs.

Regarding our young drinkers It would also help if the police were to pay visits in the evenings to the parks, play areas, and shopping precincts. And instead of making them pour the drink away and then having a friendly chat with them, they should cart them off to their parents and read the riot act, warning them that if their little Wayne or Tracy is caught again, they could expect a heavy fine being placed upon them.

The time has come to put and end to these silly measures that are forever being suggested they are just sound-bites, the time has come for strong definite action, not only to this drink problem but also to the increasingly liberal attitude to all the other problems we have in this country.

[Gromit]

jake-the-peg,

When I read your 8,000 figure, I though that can't be right, and it wasn't. The true figure is similar to France.

22,000 deaths in the UK according to Alcohol Concern.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medica l/article1963460.ece

http://www.ias.org.uk/newsroom/pressreleases/p ress010606.html

The 8,500 official figure just shows how different countries present their statistics.

That said, my assertion that the french are more responsible drinks still doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[Gromit]

And, apparently the French yoof are the same as their British counterparts...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_styl e/education/student/news/article664113.ece

[nfn]

My brother and I had alcohol from a young age, with meals and neither us ever felt the need to sneak alcohol (in the park for example) like some of our friends did. Neither of us drink to excess and we've both adopted the same attitude with our own children. Surely learning everything in moderation is more practical than a complete ban

[Bohne]

I think the youths having a problem with alcohol are not the same that drink at home in reasonalbe quantities.

The english binge drinking has become quite infamous, I'd like to hear about these kids backgrounds.
I'd bet that lots of them come from families with alcohol abuse, or the complete opposite.

[jake-the-peg]

So Grommit you're saying the French let kids drink earlier and they have the same number of deaths and their kids drink the same?

Wasn't your first point that they have less problems? does that mean you've changed your mind?

I am however being a bit naughty - the question is really about young drinking and I widened it to alcohol deaths. Statistically France does have better figures on young drinkers and we, Ireland and Denmark have some of the worst.

But given that France starts off with less young problem drinkers but ends up with the same or worse alcoholic deaths that the answer to one of the original questions - does it help discourage drink problems in later life is a resounding no.

I had no doubt that everuything was better in anotheoldgits day and all the yobs needed was a good birching - but that's probably just the booze talking

[Gromit]

"That said, my assertion that the french are more responsible drinks still doesn't stand up to scrutiny. "

[youngmafbog]

Just out of interest how are these figures compiled - survey ? from who?
Is it not possible bravarday comes into play ?

I'm afraid I dont subscribe to the theory that binge drinking is a modern thing. My younger drinking days were more than 30 years ago and I can still remember the drunken brawls in the streets drinking until your pay packet was gone (cash in those days) and lets not forget the football of the seventies !!

[youngmafbog]

Forgot to answer to the post, sorry.

Personally I think that teaching children to be responsible is the key to the majority. However we are all different and one cap does not fit all - Pelase note Tony & cronies !!

[naomi24]

And how do they propose to police this law? CCTV in every home connected straight to the local police station and breathylisers in every classroom? Ridiculous.

The problem isn't responsible parents teaching their children about alcohol and allowing them the odd sip of wine with a family meal - it's the attitude that boozing until you're incapable is somehow clever and something to be admired - and that doesn't necessarily come from the home.

[sandbach99]

In our area children found by the police with alcohol or drunk were taken home only to find most parents were ungrateful and would virtually slam the door on the police. Now the police demand that the parent[s] go to the police station to pick the children up, after every excuse the parents can think of the threat of social services works wonders. As this upsets the parents evening the police are finding that they do not catch the same children repeatedly.

Treating alcohol as forbidden fruit does not work, what is so magical about the age of 18. this is the age when a portion of teenagers suddenly find themselves free from parental ties either at university or having there own homes.

There is no point in making laws that cannot be enforced, it could even make more children drink in public places as the parents who obey the law could find their children sneaking off to taste the forbidden fruit with the others where there is no control over what is drunk or the amount.

It maybe that I am getting old, but I find now if I have a can or two I want another whereas in my young days I never felt the need to keep drinking.

Can anyone explain why a bottle or can of fruit juice or pop has a list of contents whereas a can or bottle of alcohol has no list of contents, how do we know if there is an additive now added to encourage people to drink more.

[sense4all]

Well I will be first in the public stocks then because my ten year old was explaining to an old git how to tell about dryness of wine according to how fast it slipped down the inside of the glass , sniff the aroma , appreciate the colour etc. I did not realise how much she had truly learned, he said ask your Mummy if you are allowed to have a sip of this wine in your glass - to which she replied " No thanks I only really like red! " I was waiting for the arm of the politically correct brigade to perform a citizens arrest.

I would say we are very modest in our choices of what we expose our children too, but I think it would be wrong to impose this law. I know where my kids are and what they are doing, are these 11- 13 year olds in the care of adults or not , or are they sitting outside offies and on common grounds getting Blotto 'cos they have nothing else to do except escape a grim reality, so it is a misplaced mechanism for coping?