car park classed as a public place is this true?

[b simpson]

Hello and thanks for taking the time to look over my question any help would be much appreciated
As member of a local club I was sold beer in a sealed bottle {nudge nudge wink wink} to drink out side of the club in the smoking area as off supply. I was told this would be ok as the club own the car park ware the smoking area is. But i have been told i could be find for drinking in a public place as the car park/smoking area even though its owned by the club is classed as a public place is this true?
Copy from the club licence if it's any help
L. The supply of alcohol by or on behalf of a club, or to the order of, a member of the club for consumption ON and OFF the premises
Sunday to Thursday 11:00am Midnight
Friday and Saturday 11:00am Midnight
All Public and Bank Holidays
Christmas Eve
New Years Eve

L. The sale by retail of alcohol by or on behalf of a club to a guest of a member of the club for consumption on the premises where the sale takes place
Sunday to Thursday 11:00am Midnight
Friday and Saturday 11:00am Midnight
All Public and Bank Holidays 11:00am 1:00am
Christmas Eve
New Years Eve

Additional Conditions

ANNEX 1 - MANDATORY CONDITIONS

Conditions for club premises with off sales

1) The supply of alcohol for consumption off the club premises must be made at a time when the premises are open for the purposes of supplying alcohol, in accordance with the club premises certificate, to members of the club for consumption on the premises.

2) Any alcohol supplied for consumption off the premises must be in a sealed container.

3) That any supply of alcohol for consumption off the premises must be made to a member of the club in person.

[loonytunes]

Tons of information but not the important bit.

Are you a member?
What was the status of the person who sold it to you (barman, other member, other guest?)

Once you post this, it will be easy to answer

[dot.hawkes]

Plus who told you you could be fined? A police officer on duty who saw you? A member of the club committee who saw you? someone the local licensing authority office who happened to be there at the time?

[b simpson]

Sorry yes i have a membership, the drink was sold to me by the bar man, and it was a member of the public that told me i could be finned

[b simpson]

There was more than just me out side at the time {4 or 5 people} and the member of the public told use if we continued to drink in the area she would phone the police and we would be fined for drinking in a public place

[Shadow Man]

There is a possibility that you could be fined if

1) It is a public place (and a private car park is if the public have an assumed right of entry)

2) The legislation is a by law as it is not illegal to drink in public in the UK

3) The policeman is in uniform.

All that said though, the fine, moreover fixed penalty notice, is only given after you have refused to hand ove the drink or pour it away.

If you see the member of puplic again, tell him to get a life!!!

[b simpson]

Thanks very much for all your help it is very much appreciated
So just to sum up the car park is a public place
but the police would most likely ask you to pour out your drink rather than give you a fixed fined

[dot.hawkes]

only if it is a by-law in your borough banned drinking in public places, it is in this borough but the pubs have put gazebos in the car parks with open sides and people are smoking and drinking in them

[Shadow Man]

As a general rule of thumb most carparks in most legislation (Road Traffic Act, Public Order Act etc) are public if the public can obtain access. Therefore if it has a barrier ONLY accessible by a PRIVATE pass (i.e company swipe card) then it will be private.

And the by law legislation stipulates that you must hand the booze over, pour it away etc BEFORE a fine is issued.

[b simpson]

Yes our club where we drink has put 4 wooden picnic tables, with umbrellas in the car parks with open sides and people are smoking and drinking in them. But there still in the car park so is this still classed as a public place

[b simpson]

Thanks again Shadow Man you have been very very help full and I thank you for your time

p.s big thanks to every one else for there help as well

[loonytunes]

To clarify the many issues raised by respondents in this question, there can no longer be any Byelaws made to prevent the anti social aspects of drinking on the streets.

The Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 (CJPA) gave local authorities the power to designate public areas through the introduction of a Drinking in Public Places Order where it is an offence to drink alcohol after being required by a police officer not to do so. The police have the power to require individuals to surrender the alcohol and any opened or sealed containers, and if they fail to comply with the request they can be arrested. The powers � which replaced the old drinking byelaws - were introduced to help the police deal with the problems of anti-social drinking in the public space. DPPOs make it easier for local authorities to designate places where restrictions on public drinking will apply and can be used in areas that have experienced alcohol-related disorder or nuisance.

However, such areas do not operate in an area where the supply is covered by a Club Premises Certificate. So, if the outside area was covered by the Clubs Certificate, you are fine and the Police can take no action. If they were not, you can be asked to pour the drink away or be arrested. If no request to dispose of the alcohol is made, there can be no come back or arrest.

To complete the legalities, you are able to buy alcohol in a sealed contained in a club, if you are a member, to take out of the premises and consume it somewhere else. If you are a guest, you are not.

[b simpson]

loonytunes
thanks very much for your answer it is very clear and gives me all the details i need thanks very much for your time i really apprieciated all your help THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!

[Shadow Man]

Excuse my ignorance looneytunes, but as it is not a law per ce to drink in public and thus has to be applied for via the CJPA, is this therefore not a by-law?

My understanding of a by law, whether temporary or not, is the exactly what you have described. That is a governing law, applicable to a designated area when applied for to the the home office by the chief of police??

[loonytunes]

No, Byelaws are very much a thing of the past as they are expensive and lengthy to put in place and cannot be arranged without the consent of the Home Secretary.

A DPPO is an order made in a much more simple and quick way with just local consultation. Have a look at

http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/HO/circular .nsf/79755433dd36a66980256d4f004d1514/2da26ffd 5fa047bc802572c1003a1545?OpenDocument

[b simpson]

Ok so I can buy alcohol in a sealed contained in the club, if I am a member, to take out of the premises and consume it somewhere else. If you are a guest, you can not.

So basically it is not illegal to drink in a public place in the UK, but for example you could be asked to hand the booze over, pour it away etc or be fined for antisocial drinking in a public place. Then if this was to happen several times the police/council could make it a DDPO which would then make it illegal to drink in that place.

Also the car park can be accessed by the public with out going past any barrier or needing any type of pass so it is likely that this is classed as a public place so any antisocial drinking in this area could lead to a person been fined but a quiet drink with a fag would be ok.

[loonytunes]

More or less right. The Police cannot ask you to hand over the booze or pour it asway unless and until a DPPO is in place. They would be rather heavy handed doing it if there was no such order.