EU constitution through the back door??

[Loosehead]

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?fo rumID=3653&edition=1&ttl=20071009145724
They dropped the flag and anthem, well that's ok then, let's sleepwalk into a corrupt EU superstate. When are we going to wake up and halt this tyrranny? Why won't they take no for an answer we do not want to run by an admin Junta!

[Lonnie]

Hi Loosehead,
I read this earlier, but its been Labours policy to do this for quite some time, if we don't have a referendum, the only ways to stop it, is through the ballot box, but in two years, it'll be to late, or a revolution.

Take your pick.

[kwicky]

If there is to be a referendum is should only be on single issues such as joining the Euro.

I would rather belong to a European superstate that the 51st state of the USA. At least we would have a voice.

In fact why don't we have a referendum of belonging to Europe or join the coat tails of Uncle Sam?

[jake-the-peg]

This is the problem isn't it.

The contitution/treaty issue is being hijacked by those who dislike the EU on principal.

I wonder how many of our troops would be in Iraq right now if we'd been part of a EU with a common foreign policy.

A strong EU is the only way to stand up to a neoConservative US with an agressive foreign policy - otherwise we're stuck touching our forelocks everytime Bush shouts "Heal"

[Gromit]

It is strange to think back to the eighties when Labour were very strongly anti-European, they were hugely derided by... the Thatcherites. Part of the reinvention of the Labour Party into Nooo Labour saw them shifting 180� on Europe and the Tories doing the opposite.

And their electability fortunates reversed almost at the same time.

There is a conspiracy...

[New Judge]

There�s no conspiracy � it�s simply the way party politics works. That is to the benefit of the parties and not to the electorate or the country.

The opposition always say they will do what they think the electorate wants. It may take them two or three goes, but eventually they are elected to Government. This is usually not because the electorate particularly wants them, but because they are fed up with the other lot.

The former opposition, now in Government, proceed to do exactly as they wish, regardless of their manifesto commitments or the wishes of the electorate. Among the usual reasons for failure to fulfil their manifesto commitments are �changing world economic conditions� or �developments outside of the Government's control�. They get away with this for two or three Parliaments. Meantime, the former Government (now in opposition) set sail on a fresh voyage of promise which, strangely, they seemed unable to fulfil whilst in Government.

And so it is with the EU, the single most important issue faced by this country. Both parties (and we realistically only have two to choose from) seem more intent on scoring points from the other by rubbishing their policies and announcements whilst neither seems bothered to determine what the electorate wants or what is in the best interest of the country.

I am interested to read that some AB-ers seem to think that we must enter into a federation with either the USA or Europe. This is not so. Other nations manage an independent existence perfectly well and there is no reason why we should allow our nation to be subsumed into a federation with anybody - particularly with a bunch of nations many of who hate us, and many of whom see their membership of the EU as akin to opening a joint bank account with Bill Gates.

[kwicky]

Why do you think the Tories hate Britain belonging to the EU? It is not that they want us to be Little Englanders but feel that our relationship with the USA will suffer. Blair tried to overcome this by appearing to side with both but it caused many problems within government. Better to fly the nest from the US umbrella and devote the future to Europe.

[New Judge]

I say again (in case anybody missed):

We do not have to "devote the future" (in the federalist way that the treaty/constitution demands) to ANYBODY.

The world is full of successful independant states who engage in trading and cultural arrangements with whomsoever they see fit. They don't need to be subsumed into larger federations.

The world is also littered with broken empires, where collections of nations with little or nothing in common have been forced to merge, only to explode violently apart when conflicting demands have proved to great.