Have we heard it all before?

[Loosehead]

With typical Europhilia the Independent (independent? are they really?) seeks to reasure us on the so called "Myths" of the latest EU "Constitution"
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article30 70577.ece
Now forgive me but I remember a similar thing being said in 1973, Ted Heath the master of treachery, (yes he's Tory, I know, I know), "There are those that believe signing up for a Common Market, will lead to ceding power and control to some sort of European superstate, I say this is not going to happen". Well no sh1t Ted! We voted for trading agreements and general cooperation, see where we are now! If we do sign the final surrender document, how long before the 10 fears above come to pass? As GWB once failed to say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

[Loosehead]

Thanks for the list Delboy. All of those things are attainable with simple agreements and cooperation. Now can someone tell me why we have to give up control of our country? We should have stuck with the Common Market.

[delboy3]

Well, you can believe this:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=O penMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=118475 8750520

and this:

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article30 70577.ece

or this:

http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&id=248&Itemid=65

and this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/colum nists/camilla_cavendish/article2681298.ece

I know which way I lean, and which way you lean, Loosehead.

Vive la diff�rence!

[Loosehead]

Great Delboy, now can you or anyone else tell me shy we have to cede control of the nation just in order to have agreemenets and general cooperation with the EU. I just don't get it. We pay a billion quid a month, probably more since his Tonyness rolled over, so we can get shafted all the time!

[Goodsoulette]

The key word in the EU is subsidiarity. They aren't taking over you have lots of countries with strong traditions and the three super powers in this community (which yes, is inclusive of the UK) veto anything they dont want and literally get away with it. Instead of saying no to everything that being part of the Eu stands for maybe you should take the benefits you get from it and vocalise what you want from being a part o the community.

Loosehead, how many times have you spoken to your MEP????

[Lucy Thomas]

Oh dear, goodsoulette, you really are deluded if you think that Britain is "one of the three super powers". There are only two significant powers in the EU and they are France and Germany. Every British Prime Minister since the traitor Heath has gone to EU summits full of promises only to return humiliated. Remember John Major returning from Maastricht and proclaiming that it was "game, set and match to Britain". Hook, line and sinker would have been more appropriate. And nearly all these PMs have been stitched up by the Frenc and/or Germans.

You also seem to believe that old chestnut that it is the EU that has kept peace in Europe for the last sixty years. A little bit of research will tell you emphatically that it has been NATO that has kept this peace because no other country was prepared to take on the might of the USA.

Thirty years ago the more enlightened amongst us were warning that the Common Market as it was then was not the cosy trading agreement that our politicians had led us to believe. They were warning that the plan was for a United States of Europe that would have its own parliament, its own flag and even its own anthem.

They were summarily discredited by those in power and by those daft enough to be sucked in by them. So now when they tell me that there is no plan to do this or no plan to do that I am instantly sceptical and disbelieving.

They have been lying to us about the EU for the last thirty years. Why should they be any different now?