When do the Police have to give you their evidence like witness statements?

[Geog]

My husband has been charged with ABH (for hitting someone once in self defence) and after being on bail for 6 months while the police collected witness statements (that was the reason given for keep extending bail) he has been charged and is due in Magistrates Court next week. He was told when he was charged that the police would send all the paperwork to his solicitor - it still hasn't arrived and the solicitor doesn't seem to be doing anything to chase it. The solicitor says he may only receive it at the Magistrates Court. My husband is going to plead 'not guilty' but then has to make the decision whether to ask for Crown rather than Magistrates Court. I don't see how he can make that decision without seeing which (if any) independent witness statements the Police have got. Is this 'normal'? (Never been in trouble before so no idea how these things work). Any advice? Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[stuart936]

Has he entered a plea as of yet? if not then he will plea in magistrates and the judge will decide if he feels the sentence to be longer than 1yr in prison then he will send it to crown court, paper work does not have to all be there until case management which will be around 3-6 weeks after first hearing, this is when all paper work should be completed, however, the judge could throw it out of court for insufficient evidence due to no witness statements,

good luck

[fredpuli47]

His solicitor could be right. He or she might not get a sight of papers until the magistrates' court. Don't worry. It happens all the time.. The solicitor has every right to complain if it does in this case: six months is a lot of time for an abh case to be got together. (Is your husband the only one involved? It might be understandable if this abh is only a small part of a much bigger event, involving lots of people fighting).The case can always be stood out to another day if the solicitor needs more time to read the statements.It's pretty easy for a solicitor in a normal abh to see quickly just what the prosecution case is like and advise on what to do next (e.g whether to go for jury trial or not) If it's to go to a jury trial (Crown Court) the proceedings are very straightforward and quick.Don't worry if nobody appears to be letting it go to Crown Court unquestioned. The testing of the evidence is for later, in Crown Court !

[fredpuli47]

Sorry, missed in the edit: that should read that you're not to worry 'lf everybody appears to be letting it go ..unquestioned' not 'nobody'.!

[Geog]

Thanks for the answers so far. Fredpuli47 - no, it isn't part of a bigger scenario - he was travelling home (alone) and ended up at a roundabout getting out of the car because the car behind was flashing him. (The car behind had pulled out in front of him cauing him to slam his breaks on so he had his hand on the horn and had to swerve to avoid, when they got to the roundabout he was in the outside lane again because he was going straight on, he stopped at the roundabout and the car behind flashed, so he got out - stupid I know but he certainly wasn't looking for a fight). He was talking to the lady driving when the man in the passenger seat came out and round and grabbed him by the throat. First time he managed to back off and step back, man did it again, he couldn't get out of it, so he hit him, once. Unfortunatley he saw one witness statement at the Police station which had lied saying he was hammering and banging on the car etc. We are hoping they will have taken forensics or something off the car to prove he didn't touch it and there was a man in a car behind who stopped - we are hoping they have taken a witness statement off him which will then say the same as my husband's.
Thanks for the reassurance - also 7 months pregnant (me, not husband obviously) so very stressful when this whole type of thing is completely alien to us.

[Geog]

Sorry - to answer the first question - no, he has a court date next week where he has to plea (and he will plead not guilty as he believes it was self defence) - he is talking about Crown court but I just know there are greater sentences there if he is found guilty and so worry that its a bad decision.
Hate to ask this but what are the chances of a prision sentence? (First offence)

[fredpuli47]

The Crown Court has greater powers of sentence than the magistrates, that's all. There is no obvious reason to think that magistrates are more lenient than Crown Court judges in a case like this.The immediate question is whether your husband would or could get a better result from a jury than from the magistrates' court if he contests the case , not what would happen if either found him guilty .Your husband will be guided on the appropriate course,with all the pros and cons, by his solicitor once the solicitor has a better picture.

[New Judge]

[Part 1 of 2]

A bit of further info, Geog, which may help.

Assault Occasioning ABH is, as you probably realise, and �either-way� offence and can be dealt with either in the Crown Court before a judge and jury, or in the magistrates� court. All defendants charged with such offences have the right to see the details of the prosecution case against them. These details should be provided at or before the first hearing. If they are served on the day the court must ensure that the defence has an opportunity to digest them before the defendant is asked to enter a plea. If there is insufficient time on the day an adjournment must be allowed.

If your husband pleads not guilty (or withholds his plea) the decision where the matter is heard will be taken. The magistrates have the first call. If they consider the matter is too serious for them to handle they can commit the case to the Crown Court and that is that. However, if they accept jurisdiction the defendant can opt for a Crown Court trial, and the magistrates cannot override that choice.

Magistrates have guidelines to help them decide whether to accept jurisdiction. Stuart936�s post is a little confusing. No judges are involved at a magistrates� court (unless, unusually, it is presided over by a District Judge who has the same powers as a bench of magistrates) and the decision on the venue for the trial is based upon the details of the offence (as provided by the prosecution) not the likely sentence.

[New Judge]

[Part 2 of 2]

From what you say the alleged offence is suitable to be dealt with at the lower court. Your husband should accept his solicitor�s advice on this issue, but generally they would advise to opt for a magistrates� court trial. There is nothing to be gained from a Crown Court trial (particularly if you are innocent!). Any sentence should be the same, but it will take far longer to come to court and, if found guilty, the defendant will be liable for a higher contribution towards prosecution costs.

Sentencing guidelines for ABH suggest (for a first time offender pleading not guilty) an immediate custodial sentence. However (again from what you say) there are strong mitigating circumstances surrounding the offence. This would almost certainly enable the magistrates to reduce their sentence to a Community Penalty � probably some unpaid work.

[Geog]

This is all very helpful. Thank you very much for the time it has taken you to reply

[leo8/80]

hi. im being done fot gbh (thats what they figure).. anyway, my solicitor reckons that crown court is much better.. The magistrates like sentencing people, its their hobby. At the crown court, you get a jury, hopefully with perfectly sain understanding people from the general public.
Good luck
Amar Burton

[leo8/80]

and yes its normal that your solicitor hasent got the info yet. from what i understand, you may even have to wait until the case is in the hands of your barrsiter for the police to hand in ALL the info...
send me an email at [email protected], i could forward u an outline of my case, it will give u a clearer idea of the steps involved in a similar case (section 18)..

[Geog]

Thanks Leo - he now has a date for a different magistrates court (in 2 months time!)- to be given a date for crown court. At the first appearance he was given some of the statements but apparently he won't get 'full disclosure' (is that the phrase?) until this 2nd magistrates court appearance - what a stupid system this seems to me! Good luck with your case

[leo8/80]

sorry, i just read something saying that magistrates court is better, they often give 6 months max.
http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/V ersion%20for%20publication%202007-02-16.LD.pdf
see page 59