Advocate spot-on

[Illyria54]

I have just administered the final dose of Advocate spot-on to my 4 dogs as 1 of them had sarcoptic mange, all clear now, but has anyone else used this treatment and do you know why (and I will be asking a vet) it states to pay particular attention when treating Collies and Collie crosses? I first thought it could be the fact that they are long coated but I have a GSD with a long coat, and besides a lot of breeds are long coated, so find it a bit puzzling, I'm obviously missing something, anyone out there know the answer please.

[Lil'Lucy]

I was told that Collies and collie related breeds (such as Lassie dogs) are more sensitive to one of the ingredients in the treatment (ivermectin I think) - that is why.
xxx

[Noweia]

Collies are sensitive to a few drugs in the avermectin family, a broad group of drugs that are used to treat parasite infections, both internal and external. They lack a protein in a particular mechanism that prevents the drugs building up in the brain, which can kill the dog.

The active ingredients in Advocate are imidacloprid and moxidectin. Moxidectin is in the avermectin family and so can cause problems in collies. It's usually fine if the correct dose rate and administration are followed.

Another drug in the avermectin family is ivermectin, which people are more aware of as causing problems in collies.

Hope this answers your question!

[Illyria54]

Thanks for that, I just thought it a bit odd that it was only Collies and Collie types, of which I do have one, I call him 'borderline', it hasn't affected him at all and my vet didn't mention it when he prescribed it so he obviously wasn't worried, I have kept dogs for a very long time but always said I would NEVER have a Border Collie or Border collie cross, but fate had other ideas, so I was a bit concerned when I read this. The reason for not wanting this type is they are too flippin' intelligent, and believe me this one definitely is too intelligent for his own good, he makes my GSD's seem really dense, perhaps I should have asked him!! lol!

[kita1]

The condition is caused by a faulty gene, there is now a test for the gene.

Some vets are still unaware of the problem.



MDR1
The problem is due to a mutation in the multi-drug resistance gene.

It is quite common amongst GSD's as well as other breeds such as shetland sheepdog, collies, Australian Shepherds, Old English Sheepdogs, Long-haired Whippets, Silken Windhounds, and a variety of mixed breed dogs.

The only way to know if an individual dog has the mutant MDR1 gene is to have the dog tested. Heres some links about it. -

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/test.aspx

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.asp x

[Illyria54]

Wow, I had no idea, though I did find out yesterday that you mustn't give IMODIUM to Collies and Collie types either for similar reasons to the Advocate.
Thanks.

[leelapops]

Hello Illyria.

A while ago, before Christmas, someone posted a warning on this (was it one of the 'usual suspects' maybe?!)...

I think medicines like Stronghold and Milbemax (sp?) contain it too, and the ingredient that was mentioned was selamectin.
My Collie dog was then prescribed a mange treatment to try to eliminate any potential skin disease when he was itchy and sore (turns out it's a flea allergy!), and the vet hadn't even mentioned that I should take extra care. I had to phone him up when I got home to get his opinion.

Sigh...I might as well have paid whoever it was who gave the warning!

I hope your dogs are all OK Illyria x

[Illyria54]

Thanks leelapops, my dogs are all fine thanks, we live on a farm so mangy foxes are a real problem but I don't think I will use this treatment again, it was the first time I had heard of it, it treats a whole range of things, roundworm/heartworm/mange, now I have to be careful also when I worm them and it's not easy finding a wormer just for tapeworm, don't want to OD them for roundworm.

[leelapops]

Ah Illyria, I am pleased!

I do so love the sound of your Borderline...
Yeah it's perhaps not so bad if you only have one dog, but if you treat them all, and they are playing, and a Collie gets a mouthful, well...Also, surely if it is absorbed into the skin and the bloodstream, which is kind of the point, that can't be a good thing!

Hope you find a suitable alternative.

[Illyria54]

I gave it to them in the evening when they were quiet, I always stay with my dogs for a few hours after giving any kind of meds to them as you never know what reaction they might get, even if they have been ok before, can't be too careful.

[lankeela]

I have posted warnings about these treatments before, and glad you have taken notice. The vets will not tell you because they get a very good deal from the companies that supply them. I buy my wormers online and use Drontal Plus and when I had to get four dogs wormed to go to Finland a couple of weeks ago, I got my vet to agree to me taking the Drontal in and he gave it to them, as I would not use the Milbemax which is the only one he now sells.

I also only use Frontline spray and not the spot on, although even the spray can affect some dogs, only yesterday I heard of a Jack Russell puppy that had been to the vet for jabs, worming and flea treatment and when it was taken home it went into a kind of seizure, fortunately it was ok, but the owner was worried sick and the vet charged her another �90 to treat it! Also I would not do all three treatments at one time on any dog, I would worm and flea treat separately and only do a jab if the dog was fit and healthy.

[Illyria54]

Thanks lankeela, what would you recommend for sarcoptic mange, my dogs are clear at the moment but we have a major fox problem on our farm, I saw one just this morning and the poor thing was such a mess and it only takes one of my dogs to go under the same fence and I'm back at square one with them all being treated for mange again, any suggestions greatly appreciated, thanks.

[lankeela]

Stronghold (prescription only) is the treatment that most people use, although if you read the label it also contains macrocyclic lactones.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Pfizer_Limited /Stronghold/-31092.html

[lankeela]

"Exceptionally, as with other macrocyclic lactones, reversible neurological signs have been observed after use of the product."

[Illyria54]

Thanks,
thank goodness we don't smoke!!
this isn't the first time an animal of mine has had mange, though it's a long time since it has happened fortunately, I can't for the life of me remember what I used to use though, getting old I guess.

[lankeela]

There used to be a 'cure all' liquid called Alugan, but unfortunately it is no longer licensed in the UK. Another was Quellada, don't know what happened to that. I suspect it went the same way as Alugan. It would cost too much to do the trials to get the licence.

[Illyria54]

Alugan, that was it, it came in a sachet I think, the powder didn't dissolve very well in water and you had to plunge your dog/cat in it, seem to remember having a very wet and p'd off cat about 25 years or so ago, boy that's made me feel older than ever!