Horse Trials

[terambulan]

Anyone think these horse trials are a bit cruel on the horses?

Seems to me they expect quite a lot of the horses and the horses are resisting on the bit....so they obviously dont like it.

[lankeela]

If you know anything about horses you will know that you cannot make a horse do something it does not want to and the level of training required and the cost of competing would mean that no-one in their right mind would try to train/compete with a horse that was not giving its very best.

[Barmaid]

I'm with Lankeela. In all the years I rode horses (and competed in various hunter trials and cross country events), i was never able to make my horse do something he didn't want. These animals are at the height of fitness (and even if they have only a slight injury they will be withdrawn) and are extremely well cared for - their well being is paramount.

[Mr Veritas]

Where would the disgusting French get their cheval meat from otherwise?

[echokilo]

"resisting on the bit" ?? Having years of experience in horses I have never heard this particular phrase, evading perhaps, or seizing maybe, but on resisting on ........ and i would agree with the others ..... try making any horse do something it doesn't wan to do ..... this is what they are bred for ..... and sports horse type breeds would have died out long ago (as would the TB if not for racing)

Fences can be unforgiving and injuries do occurr - as they do for all sports..

[woofgang]

mmm I am not sure that "if we didn't do it then the breed would have died out "is an argument for continuing to do something....and I think that you can breed animals who will disregard their own wellbeing in the drive to do sometihng particular....eg fighting dogs.
Also they don't get a choice about whether to risk the injury as a human competitor would. Having said that, I don't think that eventing is cruel in itself....what I don't like is what happens to the by products of eventing and racing....all the horses who are produced in the search for the good ones who don't make it and end up in the wrong hands or who ar injured early in their career, can't be competed and are sold on without due care....greyhound racing too.

[LoftyLottie]

Agree 100% with Woofgang.

[BillySugger]

They need better lawyers .

[Sammc]

I agree with Woofgang and Terambulan. Saying that injuries occur, as in all sports is a foolish argument as the horse has no choice in the matter unlike sports men/women.
Also if a horse can not be made to do anything it does not want to then why in horse racing are they whipped to make them run faster?

[Ice.Maiden]

Over-use of the whip in horse racing isn't allowed, Sammc. If injuries were found, there'd be an immediate inquiry.

I also agree with what the others've said about horse trials. Having been to Badminton recently, I can assure you that you can't make the animal do something which it doesn't want to. Many pull up, or unseat their riders - and this might have nothing to do with not wanting to jump or to do the course, because in the main, these animals are bred and trained for what they do, and enjoy the exercise.

[cherrycherry]

resisting on the bit is a very common dressage term. Personally I agree with terambulan...it is a horrible sight to see horses under such unnatural conditions.
Horses CAN definitely be made to be do things they do not want to, unto death, as in the case of the Irish racers who inadvertantly drowned a horse in a river race last year, through ignorance.
I was brought up in horsey circles from the age of about seven and I would never ever go in those circles nowadays, it is just so demeaning to the horse and the humans involved...my friends still do eventing etc but I feel they are lacking some part of their compassion towards their fellow animals and I'm not interested in participating in it.

[woofgang]

I suspect that the people who say that you can't make a hrse d what it doesn't want to are really nice people and can't imagine (or haven't seen) what some people will do to animals for their own ends.
I came to riding as a adult...had no knowledge or background. The first stables that I went to wasn't cruel but IMO thoughtless. The lady who ran it hadn't got a great business head and was struggling to keep the business going. The accommodation was only okay...they were fed adequately and went away for regular turnout but one and all they were tired, jaded and therefore moody and difficult, especially with a novice like myself.
Anyway I found another place and it was amazing to find out how horses could be...cheerful and enthusiastic, even with an idiot (me) on board, trusting and trusted and biddable, allowing the same idiot to tack them up, actually helping me to get the bit in and seeking nose and neck rubs after the lesson. This particular lady had a Pat Parelli like attitude to the horses and the difference was quite marked.
I worry about the phrase "excessive use of the whip"...so what's non excessive use then? and why is it used?

[lankeela]

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/inside_horse racing/about/whatwedo/disciplinary/whipuse.asp

[terambulan]

I accept that the regular horse trials around the counties leading up to the latest trials are fine with jumps and hurdles that seem reasonable to the horse.

Climbing high mounds to steeply slide down a sharp angle and then jump a high (maybe 6ft fence) at a short pace seems unreasonable for the horse. If you truly loved your horse and treasured its welfare you would not risk pulled tendons, sprained muscles or joint dislocations deliberately, for some fame.

[Ice.Maiden]

Well - its each to their own way of thinking. I've ridden since being a toddler, and have four horses now. You ought to try and make Max do something he doesn't want to!!! Lol - no way.

[ELVIS68]

The whips in Horse Racing aren`t used to make a horse run faster, they are mainly used for steering or to "wake" a horse up during a race, and they are so light these days they don`t cause any injury to the horse

And like others have said, if a horse doesn`t want to play ball...it won`t

[terambulan]

WADRespect Ice.Maiden as an experienced rider am sure you agree most horses can be controlled by severe bits and martingales.....where a horse can be made to do what it usually resists.

[cherrycherry]

the rules with regard to excessive use of the whip in horseracing would not still be in place if the whips are just pieces of nowt nowadays...I'm afraid the whole topic is very distasteful to me so I will not say anything other than the fact that I think it is very cruel and I just think people get numbed to the way they treat their animals and cannot even read their own animals' signals

[Ice.Maiden]

I use a standing martingale sometimes terambulan, because my horse's strong-willed. I won't go into rambling detail, but this helps to stop him throwing his head. In this respect, it DOES control him to a degree, but as for trying to get him to "perform", if you like - it's another matter. He jumps well, but no matter how low these are set at - if he decides he doesn't want to.........

[ELVIS68]

Whipping a horse is not causing the horse any distress, if a horse didn`t like what a jockey was doing to it, it would have him or her out the saddle in no time

If horses don`t like jumping fences, then how come riderless horses still jump fences?

The same can be said about idiots who think Greyhound racing is cruel...if the dog doesn`t want to chase a hare, it won`t

The only cruelty in Greyhound racing is when the dogs career is over and the owner decides to have it shot rather than keep it as a pet