Jerry Springer - The Opera

[El D]

Ok folks wots the consensus. Personally, I am still amazed that xstians are kicking up such a fuss. Religion is a set of beliefs - why should this set of beliefs hold any more power than say, my belief that Michael Howard would make a better PM (I dont but humour me). But I have no recourse if he is ridiculed through satire or demeaned about his policies. Why are they different? Why might one have legal protection and the other won't?

 

Its the same with the Sikhs. The day that play was dropped was a clarion warning to all. If we give in to religious intolerance it is a nail in the coffin of free speech.

[LeMarchand]

As I had no interest in the subject matter, I didn't watch the show. A much better solution than whinging about it (and giving it a lot of free publicity in the process). It's not as if it featured genuine torture, or executions or paedohilia or something else truly objectionable.

 

I am led to believe that some of the objections were a bit spurious: Jesus was in a loin cloth, not a nappy (though the same actor wore a nappy earlier) and the high swear count was arrived at by multiplying the word by the amount of people singing it.

 

On the other hand, it is odd that it is OK to poke fun of what is the counry's official religion (I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism, btw), but heaven help us if someone does the same about any number of middle/eastern religions. I read that ITV have had to apologise because a character it Corrie whacked someone over the head with a statue of Ganesh, thus "insulting" the god and all his followers...

[newtron]

I completely agree.  I also think it is very cool that the Jerry Springer Opera was shown on UK television.  I am from the US and I don't think there is any way network television in the US would show it.  As a result of Bush's evangelical ties, the line between church and state is becoming rather fuzzy.  It does seem to me that that sort of thing is much more under control here in the UK.  If I recall correctly, the decision not to show the play that the Sikhs were demonstrating against was made by the theatre.  Apparently the police were willing to be there to protect people going to see the play from angry protestors.  It might be appropriate to boycott plays appearing at that theatre, but ultimately, the government was standing behind freedom of speech. 

[bertie21]

I simply think, whose to judge?  I watched the show, and although it was not my cup of tea, I like everyone else had the choice to watch it or not.  Surely in a so called free society that is the point, CHOICE.

[Elfin]

I quite enjoyed it as a piece of performance art.  Hilarious in places. I watched it because of the publicity - I had to see it before I could make comment. The BBC was right to screen it.

We live in a democracy and freedom of speech is part of our constitution. If religions cannot tolerate that, then maybe they should pack up their stalls and go preach somewhere else.   (Have you seen the website of the organisation that is trying to prosecute the BBC for blasphemy? Plain scary)

I thought that christianity upheld "turning the other cheek", so it surprised me that so many were so outraged. Maybe christians are feeling that they are losing their grip on the nation and are in danger of becoming less "privileged" within our society than they once were. And so it should be.  They are a minority after all.

I personally think that religion should be a strictly personal, inner affair.  Preaching in all forms is counterproductive and should be disregarded until such time as they can prove that it's not based on utter fiction (the same approach currently adopted for people who believe their husband is a martian, that Elvis lives, that Michael Howard would make a better PM etc - y'know).

[arthurstace]

The hypocrisy of the Christian church in this instance is typical.

The Christian religion preaches forgiveness and love for one's fellow humans, and then its believers make death threats to BBC executives.

This just goes to prove once again that this faith - and indeed all religion - is oppressive, bigoted and reactionary.

[KittyGlitter]

The only reason I watched the show, was due to the publicity about it being controversial. There is no such thing as bad publicity as they say. I didn't particularly enjoy it but that was not for moral reasons. Maybe it's something I would have to see live in the theatre, to appreciate it properly. I think people should have the right to choose what they watch on TV and if there are clear warnings about bad language/religious imagery etc prior to it being shown, then we can turn it off if we think it will offend. Notice that the people complaining about the show for blasphemy, still went ahead and watched it even though there were warnings. For one christian who will be offended by Jerry Springer, there will be another christian who isn't. If the TV controllers try to please everyone with what they show on TV, then there would be nothing shown!  

[andy hughes]

i watched some of the show, but opera is not my favourite entertainment, and i found it overlong, and slightly tedious, so i changed channels. i would absolutely defend anyone's right to see the programme, and the BBC's decision to show it under its Charter obligations. I am amazed that so many Christian organisations took such exception to the content - the title is the giveaway, it's 'Jerry Springer The Opera', the entire premise is a satire of the type of show Springer presents, and the society it refelects. if this is the Church's reaction, there's not much  hope of a production of 'Godspell' getting an airing on the Beeb is there!

[Zen]

Are these the same Christians that brought you Sectarianism in Northern Ireland,The Iraq war,Puritanism,burning of witches
and of course nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!!!!

[El D]

Ah what an enlightened bunch we are. I personally did not watch the show as its not really my cup of tea either but I do agree that all religions should be equally open to ridicule.

 

After all if they are right then we are the ones going to hell, no need to behave like a bunch of little brats when someone has just insulted their dreamboat. One of the reasons religion has lasted so long and to our detriment is the unfortunate program of state prevention of almost any form of criticism. It is time these childish beliefs were openly made fun of for their ridiculous nature. Like that Corrie sketch (dont watch that either) and the Sikh play, undoubtedly these events have happened at some point in human history and will happen again. How then can you censor art imitating life?

 

In addition, why is it acceptable to air pro religious shows like the sunday morning fare, yet not to show anti religious shows (which JS was not even primarily). As an atheist could I claim that shows like Heaven and Earth or songs of praise are offensive to my beliefs? No, yet my world view is based on empirical understanding and logic and not faith, so WHY is this the case? Why is reason not defended but faith is?

 

newtron - I pity you living in the US. As you say it looks like the evangelist tendencies of your pres and the lobbying power of middle and south america are overriding common sense and state church separation over there. It also seems that there is a lot of religious rhetoric flying around over certain previously political events as they seek to tie in peoples loyalties. Truly scary stuff.

[Elfin]

El D, you should have a look at www.secularism.org.uk as they campaign to address exactly the points you raise. You'll see that you are not alone in your concerns...

[hugoboss]

El D - everytime I read your comments, I feel the same way. We must be on the same wave length!

My opinion on things like this is generally: "if you don't like it; don't watch it". It hasn't been forced down anyone's throats. In fact, it has gained far more publicity just because christians kicked off.

It just goes to show how little stability the religion has that they can be offended so easily by an Opera!!

P.S. I went to see this show live in London - and LOVED it. Hilarious. There is no need to take it seriously! it's a funny show! End of.

[RevShirls]

I agree with El D too. I am a Christian but have no problem with this being shown on TV for many of the reasons given above. I've not seen the show yet. I don't think it has been aired here in Sweden yet. I remember the same reaction years ago when Mary Whitehouse was on her high-horse about discussions that Jesus may have been gay (this referred to the Bible references to one of the disciples often being described as the "disciple whom Jesus loved" - thought to be John). These discussions were healthy but certain Christians (and others) are intolerant to any open discussion and anything that challenges their beliefs.

[morg_monster]

I went to watch the Opera itself this weekend, and I must say I really enjoyed it.  I would class myself as a Christian (although I don't regularly go to church, I don't have a problem with homosexuals whether in or out of the church, no problem with sex before marriage in a loving relationship.. blah di blah). I would agree that the play was blasphemous in the true definition of the word - but then millions of people blaspheme every day when they say "F****** Hell" "Holy S***", or even "Jesus Christ!" or "God!" when not referring to the man himself.  The opera does not take itself seriously, if I was a more staunch Christian I would probably be more upset about how the DaVinci Code (great book I think) tries to make stories about Jesus seem like fact - but then thats another debate isn't it.  And I'm afraid I can't see why people are so upset about the BBC screening it when it has been on stage for so long in the same format. 

[luckyboy]

I agree that it should have been shown, but i do think the christian groups had a point when they said that the beeb would not have been prepared to have gone ahead with a similar show if it was a attack on islam.