ChatterBank2 mins ago
Theland's Abiogenesis Update
8 Answers
Hi Theland,
As I know you're always interested in jumping up and down and decrying abiogenesis, I thought you'd be interested in this news story regarding some rather exciting news that takes the oft-cited claim by creotards that "if proteins are needed for life, and DNA is needed to create proteins, then DNA couldn't exist", smacks its head off the floor, ties it up and drags it off to dismember its corpse in a dingy cellar somewhere.
http://www.physorg.com/news135522723.html
Of course, I know full well that you'll deny abiogenesis is even remotely possibly unless someone hands you a DVD film of the exact moment the life first developed, amd wouldn't pretend this is anything other than a tiny part of the jigsaw but nevertheless, thought you might be interested to keep abreast of developments in this area that according to you can't possibly be true and isn't supported by any evidence.
As I know you're always interested in jumping up and down and decrying abiogenesis, I thought you'd be interested in this news story regarding some rather exciting news that takes the oft-cited claim by creotards that "if proteins are needed for life, and DNA is needed to create proteins, then DNA couldn't exist", smacks its head off the floor, ties it up and drags it off to dismember its corpse in a dingy cellar somewhere.
http://www.physorg.com/news135522723.html
Of course, I know full well that you'll deny abiogenesis is even remotely possibly unless someone hands you a DVD film of the exact moment the life first developed, amd wouldn't pretend this is anything other than a tiny part of the jigsaw but nevertheless, thought you might be interested to keep abreast of developments in this area that according to you can't possibly be true and isn't supported by any evidence.
Answers
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That's an entirely fair comment, J-t-P - I wouldn't presume to know which might be right, and why I was at pains to make the point that it didn't solve the mystery of abiogenesis.
However, what it does do, is demonstrate quite conclusively that yet another of the objections that is often raised against abiogenesis by its religiously-
However, what it does do, is demonstrate quite conclusively that yet another of the objections that is often raised against abiogenesis by its religiously-
14:09 Mon 21st Jul 2008
Waldo, thank you very much for taking the time and the trouble to post this thread for me.
Having read the link, and tried my very best to follow and understand the logic and science, I have to conclude that, yes, this is an important step on the road to explaining abiogenesis.
My problem is not in a rejection of the available scientific knowledge, but in a rejection of events further back, the old, "something from nothing," conundrum.
Added to that are my experiences and observations that prove to me, and millions of others, that there is a higher power.
I'm not abandoning my creationist views, but modifying them in the light of more knowledge, as to the methodology employed.
Once again, many thanks Waldo, and I shall continue to be brave enough, (or foolish enough), to post occasionally, the sort of stuff that positively invites you and other respected ABers to tear me up for @r$e paper, as well the usual abuse from the less well informed.
Having read the link, and tried my very best to follow and understand the logic and science, I have to conclude that, yes, this is an important step on the road to explaining abiogenesis.
My problem is not in a rejection of the available scientific knowledge, but in a rejection of events further back, the old, "something from nothing," conundrum.
Added to that are my experiences and observations that prove to me, and millions of others, that there is a higher power.
I'm not abandoning my creationist views, but modifying them in the light of more knowledge, as to the methodology employed.
Once again, many thanks Waldo, and I shall continue to be brave enough, (or foolish enough), to post occasionally, the sort of stuff that positively invites you and other respected ABers to tear me up for @r$e paper, as well the usual abuse from the less well informed.
Watch out, Waldo, there's no stopping me once I start.
You know Waldo I don't really think that dismissing the problems in explaining abiogenesis by appealing to RNA is very convincing.
RNA itself is particularly complex and the vision of that spontaneously coming about seems rather difficult to swallow.
The fact that this research has shown that a small piece of functionality once thought to be associated with proteins is
not really all that relevant in answering where the first self replicating chemicals came from.
I'm not a bioChemist but I have read Christian de Duve's "Blueprint of a Cell" on Thioesters and the "Thioester world" that may have preceded the "RNA world" and it is much more credible to my untrained eye than the idea of RNA spontaniously coming about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thioester
RNA itself is particularly complex and the vision of that spontaneously coming about seems rather difficult to swallow.
The fact that this research has shown that a small piece of functionality once thought to be associated with proteins is
not really all that relevant in answering where the first self replicating chemicals came from.
I'm not a bioChemist but I have read Christian de Duve's "Blueprint of a Cell" on Thioesters and the "Thioester world" that may have preceded the "RNA world" and it is much more credible to my untrained eye than the idea of RNA spontaniously coming about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thioester
That's an entirely fair comment, J-t-P - I wouldn't presume to know which might be right, and why I was at pains to make the point that it didn't solve the mystery of abiogenesis.
However, what it does do, is demonstrate quite conclusively that yet another of the objections that is often raised against abiogenesis by its religiously-inclined foes is not the insurmountable obstacle its supporters would like us to believe.
Despite what he says above Theland has stated in the past quite categorically that abiogenesis is an impossibility - but I am sincerely delighted if he is starting to accept the possibility that these ideas aren't just made up to fulfill a pre-determined atheist agenda but are actually based on credible conjecture on the basis of the available evidence.
However, what it does do, is demonstrate quite conclusively that yet another of the objections that is often raised against abiogenesis by its religiously-inclined foes is not the insurmountable obstacle its supporters would like us to believe.
Despite what he says above Theland has stated in the past quite categorically that abiogenesis is an impossibility - but I am sincerely delighted if he is starting to accept the possibility that these ideas aren't just made up to fulfill a pre-determined atheist agenda but are actually based on credible conjecture on the basis of the available evidence.
My G.C.E in woodwork hardly qualifies me to make an authritive statement on this latest news.
However, (there is always a, "however,"), as a concerned and interested person and as a Christian, I do try my best to keep my views modified in the light of available evidence.
This evidence is obviously also scientific, as well as being prophetic, and experiential. (I may add others later ...)
My problem is always how to approach the God I believe in, and if Waldo, JTP, or Clanad, as well as many other highly respected posters on here, can contribute to my education, then I am humbly grateful, and verty appreciative of the efforts made for my benefit.
To me, this world is like witnessing the impending end of a race.
The runners have just entered the home straight, and I am trying to figure out who is in what position, but, ....... I was not around to witness the starters gun, and can only speculate, as to how the initial line up looked.
(Forgive my frequent dalliance with metaphors).
In conclusion, please involve me again in any additional insights you receive from the world of science on this fascinating subject.
However, (there is always a, "however,"), as a concerned and interested person and as a Christian, I do try my best to keep my views modified in the light of available evidence.
This evidence is obviously also scientific, as well as being prophetic, and experiential. (I may add others later ...)
My problem is always how to approach the God I believe in, and if Waldo, JTP, or Clanad, as well as many other highly respected posters on here, can contribute to my education, then I am humbly grateful, and verty appreciative of the efforts made for my benefit.
To me, this world is like witnessing the impending end of a race.
The runners have just entered the home straight, and I am trying to figure out who is in what position, but, ....... I was not around to witness the starters gun, and can only speculate, as to how the initial line up looked.
(Forgive my frequent dalliance with metaphors).
In conclusion, please involve me again in any additional insights you receive from the world of science on this fascinating subject.
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