Motorway speed limit signs

[ianess]

Why do we see the 70 max speed sign when joining a motorway? As different classes of vehicles have different speed limits [on all classes of roads] should the sign not just be the white circle with a black diagonal band?  This is the "National Speed Limit Applies" sign as per the Highway Code.  Or is it just that I suspect the police are only out to catch the car driver, and let LGV and coach drivers away with anything until there`s a disaster?

[Skids]

Where is this?  I've never seen a 70 sign, and I've driven most motorways.  I would guess its there to remind the car driver that the maximum NSL on dual lane (or more) carriageways is 70mph, not 80, 90 or 100 like most BMW drivers think it is.

[ianess]

The main motorway in my part of the world is the M90 and when joining it many, if not all, slip roads have a 70 sign.  On the outskirts of Perth one lane has a 40 limit because of a tight bend over a flyover and it never changes back to 70 or any other speed.

I have used motorways all over the country and 70 signs are prevalent.   The point is, that should be "national limit" signs.  The type of vehicle is irrelevant.

[KebabMeister]

I've noticed this mostly in Scotland.  You have to remember that the 70 sign is only telling you that the speed limit is 70 mph and that you don't have to travel at that speed.

In England and Wales the National Speed Limit sign is used 97% of the time in this situation.

[Gef]

The National Speed Limit is 60 mph, ie it is the limit on all roads unless there are signs to the contrary.

[ianess]

That`s it exactly.  The 70 limit only applies to CARS.

LGV`s, PCV`s, Vehicles towing trailers, and yes that is including CARAVANNERS, are all limited to less than 70 mph.  For that reason alone any signs showing the speed limit to be 70 is at the very least ambiguous, and at its worst downright dangerous by advertising incorrect information.

To Gef.....I reiterate that the National Speed Limit varies depending on the class of vehicle being driven, and that to state a blanket figure of 60mph in the UK is plain wrong.

[Jay70]

I'm afraid ianess, your statement in your third entry 'The 70 limit only applies to CARS.' is in fact incorrect.  It also applies to motor cycles, buses and coaches (not exceeding 12m in overall length) and goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight (unless articulated or towing a trailer)

If someone towing a trailer or caravan thinks they can do 70mph on a motorway instead of the legal 60mph when they see a 70mph sign then they obviously don't know the Highway Code too well.  If you were to put the National Speed limit sign on a motorway then as Gef so rightly pointed out the max speed limit would be reduced to 60mph.  This would technically then mean anyone towing a trailer would be limited to 50mph so your thinking of using this sign to encapsulate the peed catergories for all traffic using a motorway would be unfounded.

As with all speed limit signs they indicate a maximum speed and not necessarily one which applies to a given situation i.e. weather conditions or vehicle type.

I gues the only way to cover every permitation would be to have a sign with catergories on but I think this may not be practical.

Hope this helps you. 

 

 
 

[ianess]

The debate continues.    The "National Speed Limit Applies" sign is a white circle with a black diagonal band.  It is there for the purpose of making a driver/rider of a vehicle aware of the maximum speed permitted for that particular class of vehicle, for the type of road being driven on.  It is in no way a fixed figure for all vehicles.

The 70 sign is ambiguous to the point of being dangerous because it applies only to cars and motorcycles.  I was always led to believe that coaches were limited to 62mph [100kph] on motorways but that too seems to be a grey area.

Jay70...and...Gef...thanks for your replies but I do not agree with your definition of a National Speed Limit.  I stand by my claim that it is variable dependant on a known set of circumstances.

Let the debate flourish!!

[BenDToy]

The national speed limit is 60 on single carriagway roads and 70 on dual carriageways. I can't believe that there are any drivers out there who are not aware of this. Well actually I can. I was behind one on the M1 the other day who obviously thought it was 50!      ;-)

[BenDToy]

Sorry that is obviously only for cars. For a fuller description see   http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103

[sddsddean]

And that link bears out Ian's argument. Depending on what you are driving and on what sort of road, the limit is different. So it would be far more appropriate (and correct to my way of thinking) that the sign displayed should be a NSL rather than a 70. For a comparison, you usually see a NSL sign on a single c'way rather than a 60, even though (for example) the HGV limit is 40. It would be an interesting legal point should it ever have a bearing on an accident or something. I'm with Ian; it should be an NSL sign.

[Gef]

Thanks Bendy for correct us all! Now if only we could get drivers to obey them.

[murvic]

If you see a bus or coach travelling at 69.9mph in the outside lane of a motorway don't assume that it is breaking the law.  It may have been registered before 1st January 1988 and therefore, unlike more up to date and safer buses/coaches, does not have to be fitted with a regulator limiting it to 62mph.

[ianess]

Very true murvic.......but the problem remains, and I`m sure that I`m not alone in this belief, in that a private motorist in his/her car or on a bike can be sitting at the legal limit of 70 and be left behind by artics and coaches who are supposed to be limited by law to either 60 or 62mph.  Yet we never seem to hear of any instance where they are pulled up for speeding even though the consequences of an accident involving such a vehicle doesn`t bear thinking about.

We now seem to have gone full circle to the point where I wonder if the sole reason for speed limits is to financially penalise the private motorist in order to make the crime figures look good.... or some other political reason.

By the way, this afternoon I left a 30 limit which had changed to a 50 limit when I and the bus in front of me [both of us doing about 45] were overtaken by an artic which was legally limited to 40 on a single carriageway road.     What if anything is done about that?

Sorry for the long sentences.  It`s late.  Good night.

[Jay70]

ianess - sorry if my explination wasn't clear enough but I do agree with you that the National Speed Limit is dependant on what type of vehicle you are driving but so is an area where you see a 70 mph sign.  So theorectically you could put a 60mph sign in place a the national speed limit sign as the same restictions apply.