Listener 3997: Big Holes by Elap

[midazolam]

Here is the quarterly numerical listener crossword

[mad max]

I think ill pass on this one, many thanks anyway

[cruciverbali]

Sorry midazolam - I should have refreshed my screen before posting, didn't mean to replicate your posting.

C

[eddery]

Thank you midazolam ... and thank you cruciverbalist
Bon weekend chaps

[midazolam]

no problem c

manage to find the link early this week - as i know the numerical crosswords always take longer than the rest, i needed a head start

[cluelessJoe]

that was fast! Thanks for the link m - off to load a blank spreadsheet now. Adios

[midazolam]

phew - i am glad that is over for another 3 months

i am very impressed once again with the sheer beauty to invent grids and clues like this.

The theme takes me back to school (as with the space invaders from zero) and so put a smile on my face when the penny dropped

thanks elap

[lordbadger]

I expect this question has cropped up more than a couple of times (!) but I�m a new boy on answer bank, so please forgive me ..

What�s the history behind the numerical (so-called) crosswords that we have to endure once a quarter? Has it always been thus? And why??

Is the absence of any banter this week an indication of universal dissatisfaction, or is there a bunch of people out there who actually �like� these puzzles?

As you may be gathering I�m not a fan .. and just find it a chore to have to slog through a tedious logic problem.

Lord B

[Deviant]

According to Listener Crossword, they've been a feature since the early days. They're not always on the last Saturday of those months - sometimes thematic timing gets in the way.

As for enjoyment, I know some people love them - and there's usually a much larger entry for mathematical puzzles. Myself, I usually make mistakes & don't finish them. This one is the first in a long time that I've completed with no errors :) Despite that, I do quite like them - once a quarter!

[Deviant]

Oops - make that Listener Crossword website - whoever heard of a site needng the http on the reference?

[Mysterons]

Not nearly as much of a 9075 this time as they can be Lord B. I for one am a big fan of the Numerical Puzzles, and I did quite enjoy this one. One minor gripe - I did think it a bit mean that the preamble omitted the usual phrase "Chambers Dictionary (2003) is the primary reference". This, after all, is a crossword, albeit with a twist, and as such all words can be found in our '37818'.

[x_word_fan]

Thought I'd done it until I saw your posting.Have I missed something - is it not just O - W - UP?? 378XXXX3

[Mysterons]

The preamble is quite clear that each cell should contain one digit, but I certainly wouldn't use (for example) any continental sevens - I think you should be able to read the words when the grid is viewed OWU.

[failedagain]

Thanks for giving away the theme, as usual, Mysterons.

[jamesah]

I'm glad everyone seems to have found this easy. I've got about half the letters and the hint but I'm now stuck. I don't understand the preamble entirely-I can't see what all the answers have in common e.g the answers to E, P and Q. What have those numbers got in common? Any small hint would be gratefully received.

[Cruncher]

Not all numbers appear in the grid or as letter values. The numbers that do share a common feature which is described by the hint.

I too felt that Mysterons' postings were unnecessarily explicit.

[cluelessJoe]

... a little over-generous, though not disastrously so - at least on this one, people will still need to fathom all the numerical answers, and I supppose anyone who manages that & gets the hint should find the final step fairly simple anyway.
I liked this one ... very smart - though even having solved it, it took me quite some time before I figured out the relevance of the title. Doh!

[jamesah]

Many thanks, Cruncher. Finally finished it and glad it's 3 months until the next one!

[lordbadger]

Thanks Deviant .. maybe I am in a minority then .. I guess I thought there'd be a bunch of people out there groaning severely once a quarter as their eyes glaze over! Maybe numerical logic is not so different to verbal logic after all? Roll on No. 4010 hey?

Lord B

[cluelessJoe]

Lord B ... you may be in a minority, but I think it's a significant minority. As you so correctly surmise, logic can reign supreme over numerics or alphabetice, but either can be a struggle. I get the impression from posts here and elsewhere that some people do indeed suffer a mind-numbing blank once a quarter, and just step back from the numerical challenge.
For my part, I enjoy these, but despite a couple of good maths A levels, could not get close without assistance from an electronic spreadsheet.
A nice diversion, but I recko that one per quarter is just about right.

[Philoctetes]

I love both sorts, but the challenge is completely different. With verbal puzzles, you are engaged in a battle of wits with the setter for each individual clue, lost in a soup of subtlety. Reference books pile up around you until the final lightbulb moment. Very satisfying.
Numerics are (usually) less subtle, with all the information open and on the surface in the clue (until and unless there is a final twist). The problem is seeing exactly how the clues interrelate. Rarely do you need more than whatever you need to do simple arithmetic - though a list of the different kinds of numbers can be helpful. Also very satisfying.
Perhaps the main difference (for me) is that I can leave a verbal clue at the back of my mind and the answer will pop up, but a numeric clue can only be worked on in context.
But i do think the balance is about right.