Bereavement and life after death

[monty0703]

When a loved one passes away obviously it's an extremely distressing time. However, (and I say that lighlty) if I truly believed in God and heaven and that I would see my dearly departed again in heaven, then I would find comfort and solace in that and that would help me through. Yet, there are some religious people who never get over the grief of losing a loved one despite believing in heaven. Just wondered what others thought..

[keyplus90]

I will differ a little bit from 123everton. I believe that the heaven and hell both are physical and not spiritual. Although the body people will have may differ from the one we have now. As this body needs regular looking after and then is only for temporary purpose.

[naomi24]

Monty, I think the survival of the soul is a natural process, but I don't believe in God, the Devil, or heaven.

We all mourn those we love, but in reality we cry for ourselves. It's our loss - and that's why even those who believe that the soul survives death, and that the separation may only be temporary, grieve.

[monty0703]

Again, Whiskeysheri shares my view entirely. For me, I know I won't meet them again after death. I'd love to believe but I'd be fooling myself. Sigh...I'm really sad now thinking about the inevitable (sniff).

[Schutzengel]

Tups, I wouldn't worry about it. It's supposed to be a spiritual world, and not a physical one. In part of the funeral service in most UK churches, it says, "We cast off mortality, and take on immortality". If that is true then we would all be in a spiritual form, and the physical nature would be left behind.

[Tups]

Good point Schutz. I actually believe Heaven and Hell are a state of mind. Ever heard the story:

A man died and went to Heaven but before entering, he asked if he could view Hell first. He was duly taken to Hell and was surprised to find it was a huge room, full of people sitting around a banqueting table, laden with wonderful food. However, everyone was starving because, instead of having hands, they had 8 foot long forks attached to their arms, which meant they couldn't get any food in their mouths. He then went back to Heaven and found the same banqueting room, full of the same people, sitting around the same glorious banquet. They, too, had 8 foot long forks instead of hands. But they were all fat and cheerful. That was because they had learnt to feed each other!

[jake-the-peg]

This kind of gets to the heart of what religion is.

There are many religions - some like budhism don't even really believe in a God as many would understand it.

However they all seem to believe in an immortal soul or spirit.

This also cuts to the heart of why I'm an atheist.

For a soul to exist it must come into creation. Once you had no "soul" now you do.

If anything can be created it can be distroyed - it's simply the reverse process.

Talk to any religonist about the soul - where does it come from? do animals have them? Do they live in the brain? and can they get damaged when brain damage causes personality change

Pretty soon it'll start to become clear that it all makes no sense

[naomi24]

Jake <l>For a soul to exist it must come into creation. Once you had no "soul" now you do.

I'm not following you. What do you mean - or have I missed something?

[ludwig]

This is what I don't understand. Whenever a pope dies thousands go to the Vatican to mourn, and they stand there in the square weeping and looking sad.
Surely they should be happy for him? I don't mean this flippantly. Can someone explain to me what there is to be sad about if you are a believer? Of course you'll mourn those you were close to whether you believe or not, but unless you knew the pope personally there's nothing to grieve about.

Jake - The soul's like a kangaroo, it makes no sense because you haven't seen it yet, that's all.

[ummmm]

I believe in God and heaven but don't think I'll ever get over losing my Dad.

It's selfish......I miss him and I want him back.

[Octavius]

Ludwig, like many events in history, people want to play their part, whether they are shedding crocodile tears or genuinely upset, or just want to say �I was there�. Mass grieving (e.g. the Diana funeral) is mostly based on the media hype that being there is what matters, whether you care about it or not.

[joggerjayne]

I think it demonstrates the fragile hold that we have on our beliefs.

It suggests that most "faith" is, in truth, something of a contingency plan ...

I maintain a faith, just in case there is a God, and a Heaven. I don't want to get it wrong.

But when I lose a loved one, are they happily sitting beside God in a wonderful place>

Should I feel happy for them?

Would I, like Abraham (?) cast my loved one off the mountain if the Lord asked me to nail my faith to the mast?

Heck ... No !!

[joggerjayne]

ps. If you just feel sad for yourself, and your own loss, then you would be selfishly putting your own feelings before the will of The Lord.

[jake-the-peg]

Naomi

Where does this soul come from?

Abrahamic religions don't believe in life before birth. Yet they believe in life after death - the survival of a bit of you after your death - your soul.

So your soul has to be created - once it did not exist and now it does.

It cannot be immortal - indestructable - because if something can come into existance it can go out of existance by the reverse process.

Even if you believe in reincarnation you're not much better off -you could claim that every soul that could exist has always existed. Then not only are you stuck explaining the origin of God but of every soul as well

It's a mess

[joggerjayne]

So the only conclusion must be that we do not truly believe.

Not truly, truly, truly.

[naomi24]

Jake, I see what you're saying. To play Devil's advocate, the Abrahamic religions may not believe in life before birth, but perhaps they're wrong. Many others are quite convinced that it happens. Additionally, we could ask where love or hate come from - or where our personalities and our thoughts come from, or basically, what is our 'self'? We can't see or touch any of these things - but there's no doubt that they exist. We are who we are, and something within us makes each and every one of us different from everybody else. Perhaps the existence of the soul confirms your 'something coming from nothing' theory. After all, if you say it can happen in one sphere, why not in another?

[monty0703]

Thanks for all the interesting replies. How I would love to believe that death is not the end.

[Octavius]

It isn�t. Nick Cave said so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJwE86Prckw