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Best boilers
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Hello there i need a new boiler as any got any info about them its a mine field. I currently have the old system (copper) cylinder and two water tanks in my loft any surgestions would be welcome. I am thinking about having a worchester bosch combi. thanks in advance
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We recently replaced our old Sime combi which was rubbish.We (and our neighbours) both chose the Worcester Bosch Greenstar 27i, recommended by 2 plumbers.We have a 4 storey very old cottage ( thick walls,no cavity insulation and no double glazing) and a bath but no shower.There are 5 radiators in total.This boiler is big enough if we want to install a shower too.My neighbours had the next size up because they have an extension with an extra 5 radiators. By law the system has to be flushed too. Ours cost �1500 fitted and it's brilliant.Our house has never felt so warm and toasty and the heating is only on 2 hrs in the morning and 3 at night. Highly recommended.
Hi Richard I have just had a worcester Ri 18 Kw heat only (less complicated than a trad combi) condensing boiler. fitted for 3 bed semi 8 rads we also got a new standard up to date hot cyl to keep the the hot water vital for a family 12 " immersion stand by. it runs a treat compared to last year same quarter saved �� and heated all the house to boot well pleased hth Tez
if you look at the which mag , free at the library, you will get their report on boilers and servicing for the september edition this year and last.
i think last year the overall winner was a baxi potterton and this year its a glow worm.
the thing is you are getting the opinion of more than one person and this is a user , not an installer
the installer is interested in profit and you need to bear this in mind when accepting advice from them
i think the old saying you pay for what you get applies and that is why worcester and valliant etc. have a good name but there are other boilers that do a perfectly reasonable job for less cost
i think last year the overall winner was a baxi potterton and this year its a glow worm.
the thing is you are getting the opinion of more than one person and this is a user , not an installer
the installer is interested in profit and you need to bear this in mind when accepting advice from them
i think the old saying you pay for what you get applies and that is why worcester and valliant etc. have a good name but there are other boilers that do a perfectly reasonable job for less cost
i'm a corgi registered heating engineer who specialises in repairs and not installations. without a doubt the best boilers you can buy are either vaillant or worcester-bosch.
any size boiler will handle the heating on a typical house but be aware that the power of the boiler you choose is dependant on the hot water supply you require. the more powerful the boiler the better the hot water delivery you will get. i would reccommend a minimum of a 28kw boiler and preferably 30 to 32. if you choose an underpowered boiler you may be very very dissapointed with the hot water flow especially if your used to a tank fed system.
also note that the more powerful the boiler the bigger the gas supply pipe you will need i.e. if you have a 15mm gas pipe at the moment you will almost certainly need a new 22 or 28 mm supply pipe run to the boiler direct from the meter, this adds to the cost of the job but is essential.
and when your new boiler is fitted yu will also have to have trv's fitted to the rads and the appropriate controls, room stat etc, this is to comply with the energy efficiency regulations.
for a replacement combi boiler your looking at 1500 to 2000 pounds depending on whether you opt for a top quality boiler or a crap one and on which firm you use (dont go to british gas or power gen or whatever there called these days, look for a reputable small firm.
and it is not true that by law the system has to be flushed the flush is to comply with the boiler manufacturers warranty conditions.
it is worth mentioning that a power flush may be worth while if your system is very old as it would restore it to peak condition but this would add 400 to 600 pounds to the cost
hope that helps
any size boiler will handle the heating on a typical house but be aware that the power of the boiler you choose is dependant on the hot water supply you require. the more powerful the boiler the better the hot water delivery you will get. i would reccommend a minimum of a 28kw boiler and preferably 30 to 32. if you choose an underpowered boiler you may be very very dissapointed with the hot water flow especially if your used to a tank fed system.
also note that the more powerful the boiler the bigger the gas supply pipe you will need i.e. if you have a 15mm gas pipe at the moment you will almost certainly need a new 22 or 28 mm supply pipe run to the boiler direct from the meter, this adds to the cost of the job but is essential.
and when your new boiler is fitted yu will also have to have trv's fitted to the rads and the appropriate controls, room stat etc, this is to comply with the energy efficiency regulations.
for a replacement combi boiler your looking at 1500 to 2000 pounds depending on whether you opt for a top quality boiler or a crap one and on which firm you use (dont go to british gas or power gen or whatever there called these days, look for a reputable small firm.
and it is not true that by law the system has to be flushed the flush is to comply with the boiler manufacturers warranty conditions.
it is worth mentioning that a power flush may be worth while if your system is very old as it would restore it to peak condition but this would add 400 to 600 pounds to the cost
hope that helps
gucciman first thanks for your superb answer, I have now had 3 quotes 2 from one man bands and a 3rd from a small reputable firm . first man said �1,350 for a sraight replacement, but to put a combi boiler in the loft �1,950 and that is a baxi duotex 28kw boiler. The 2nd man said �1,400 for a straight swap and �1,800 for a worcester bosch greenstar si 30i combi in the loft. The 3rd guy who we liked the best and is a small reputable firm did not give me a price for a straight swap but said for a worcester bosch greenstar si 30i combi in the loft it would be �2,300 and he was the only one who said he would do a drain flush, not a power flush.
All 3 said they would utalize a 22mm pipe going to the loft for the gas pipe up there, My pipework is old and i was talking to my neighbour and he said you have to carefull plumbing a combi to the old pipework cos off the old joints mite leak! with the presure.
We liked the guy with the highest quote because we just felt confident with him he sempt to know what he was talking about, but i can have the same boiler for �500 cheaper and that is a lot to me at the moment.
Choosing a boiler is a nightmare worse than picking my kitchen last year. gucciman please help!!!!!
All 3 said they would utalize a 22mm pipe going to the loft for the gas pipe up there, My pipework is old and i was talking to my neighbour and he said you have to carefull plumbing a combi to the old pipework cos off the old joints mite leak! with the presure.
We liked the guy with the highest quote because we just felt confident with him he sempt to know what he was talking about, but i can have the same boiler for �500 cheaper and that is a lot to me at the moment.
Choosing a boiler is a nightmare worse than picking my kitchen last year. gucciman please help!!!!!
firstly you can't go wrong with a worcester-bosch greenstar, they are awesome machines.
do you really want the boiler in the loft? it sounds as though you can save yourself a lot of money by not going for the loft option.
there's absolutely no reason why you can't have a boiler in the loft but i can tell you that in the last 3 years ive seen only 1 loft mounted boiler. its a personal thing but i like to be able to keep an eye on a boiler, they are after all full of gas, electrics, water, a naked flame and are pressurised.
and i dont want to confuse you more but consider a vaillant boiler too. the vaillant ecotec plus is another excellent boiler, the equal of the worcester and slightly cheaper, and also they do a cheaper variant called the ecotec pro which is exactly the same boiler but has less fancy controls so is great value for money. the vaillant also has a stainless steel heat exchanger whereas the worcester has an aluminium one.
as for the old pipework, i dont think the pressure of a combi is going to be a whole lot higher than a conventional system to be honest. they typically use a similiar pump with the combi pump set at a slightly higher speed. old systems are being ripped out all the time and replaced with combis, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. the only way you could be sure is to have the entire heating system ripped out and replaced but then your talking 2500 to 3000.
i hope that helps, please ask any more questions if you need to.
p.s. are you in birmingham? if you are i can reccommend installers.
do you really want the boiler in the loft? it sounds as though you can save yourself a lot of money by not going for the loft option.
there's absolutely no reason why you can't have a boiler in the loft but i can tell you that in the last 3 years ive seen only 1 loft mounted boiler. its a personal thing but i like to be able to keep an eye on a boiler, they are after all full of gas, electrics, water, a naked flame and are pressurised.
and i dont want to confuse you more but consider a vaillant boiler too. the vaillant ecotec plus is another excellent boiler, the equal of the worcester and slightly cheaper, and also they do a cheaper variant called the ecotec pro which is exactly the same boiler but has less fancy controls so is great value for money. the vaillant also has a stainless steel heat exchanger whereas the worcester has an aluminium one.
as for the old pipework, i dont think the pressure of a combi is going to be a whole lot higher than a conventional system to be honest. they typically use a similiar pump with the combi pump set at a slightly higher speed. old systems are being ripped out all the time and replaced with combis, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. the only way you could be sure is to have the entire heating system ripped out and replaced but then your talking 2500 to 3000.
i hope that helps, please ask any more questions if you need to.
p.s. are you in birmingham? if you are i can reccommend installers.
gucciman thanks for the answer, i am from Sheffield mate. The dilemma i have is that i had a new pump and new cylinder replaced last year as i am on the BG 3 star service contract and the emersion heater did not work but it was that old they said the nut would just round off when they took it off.
I suppose what i want to know is what is the best system, i have heard a lot of bad storys with combis but not many with the old system we are quite happy with what we have got and i can get a staight replacement for �1350 the current boiler is in the cupboard next to the main back door.
The reason why the loft idea came up is the guys said they would have to get a hot and cold supplie to the cupboard for a combi but we have just had a new kicthen in and new floor laid, so they can get the supplie from the airing cupboard were the cylinder is to the loft, the loft is boarded out and there is a light there. They said they would put a radio controll in the house so we can work it from there.
In a nutshell i can save �1000 by keeping my old system just replace the boiler, or is it worth (investing) the �1000 to get a combi in. thanks Rich
I suppose what i want to know is what is the best system, i have heard a lot of bad storys with combis but not many with the old system we are quite happy with what we have got and i can get a staight replacement for �1350 the current boiler is in the cupboard next to the main back door.
The reason why the loft idea came up is the guys said they would have to get a hot and cold supplie to the cupboard for a combi but we have just had a new kicthen in and new floor laid, so they can get the supplie from the airing cupboard were the cylinder is to the loft, the loft is boarded out and there is a light there. They said they would put a radio controll in the house so we can work it from there.
In a nutshell i can save �1000 by keeping my old system just replace the boiler, or is it worth (investing) the �1000 to get a combi in. thanks Rich
no i have heard stories of installers claiming that a power flush is a legal requirement so they can squeeze another 500-600 quid out of the job. its not a legal requirement, but the boiler manufacturers do insist on a flush as part of their warranty, it doesn't have to be a expensive power flush however, a hot and cold flush usually suffices.
if i was you i would opt for a direct replacement conventional (non-combi) condensing boiler. a combi is never going to give you the hot water delivery that a cylinder/tank fed conventional system is going to.
when you replace a boiler to comply with the energy efficiency regulations your meant to upgrade your hot water cylinder to the latest high heat recovery coil version but you probably already have one if your cylinder was re-newed recently. you also have to fit thermostatic radiator valves to all but one rad (usually the one in the same room as a room stat) and your new boiler needs to be fully programmable, have a room stat, and be fully pumped (not gravity water) with a conventional boiler you probably wont have to increase the size of the gas supply pipe either.
most of the boiler makers including worcester and vaiilant sell condensing non-combi boilers and you could also consider having a sealed system installed which would do away with the smaller of the header tanks in the loft.
if i was you i would opt for a direct replacement conventional (non-combi) condensing boiler. a combi is never going to give you the hot water delivery that a cylinder/tank fed conventional system is going to.
when you replace a boiler to comply with the energy efficiency regulations your meant to upgrade your hot water cylinder to the latest high heat recovery coil version but you probably already have one if your cylinder was re-newed recently. you also have to fit thermostatic radiator valves to all but one rad (usually the one in the same room as a room stat) and your new boiler needs to be fully programmable, have a room stat, and be fully pumped (not gravity water) with a conventional boiler you probably wont have to increase the size of the gas supply pipe either.
most of the boiler makers including worcester and vaiilant sell condensing non-combi boilers and you could also consider having a sealed system installed which would do away with the smaller of the header tanks in the loft.
Right i have made a decision, going for the system i have allready just gonna change the boiler. The 2 quotes we like best are �1300 the choice of a baxi solo,worchester bosch, or valiant and he said he wants to do a power flush as well in that price i do (believe) him hes a guy with over 30 years exp working for BG ect who just lives round the corner.
Or the second one who we also liked �1200 plus vat (�1380) Baxi solo he swears by them said �70 for a fan where as you are looking at �220 for a worchester bosch fan. Asked him about the power flush said they do a hot and cold one not a power, he said a power flush somtimes do more harm than good inside the cylinder ect.
This guy also lives round the corner.
gucciman would welcome your opinion on these quotes cheers Rich
Or the second one who we also liked �1200 plus vat (�1380) Baxi solo he swears by them said �70 for a fan where as you are looking at �220 for a worchester bosch fan. Asked him about the power flush said they do a hot and cold one not a power, he said a power flush somtimes do more harm than good inside the cylinder ect.
This guy also lives round the corner.
gucciman would welcome your opinion on these quotes cheers Rich
baxi solos have been around for a long long time in various guises and Worcesters are just top quality awesome boilers. Worcester also have excellent technical back up and support. they also do a guaranteed repair with all parts and labour for around �200 so your repair bills should never be too horrendous.
i dont think ive ever paid �200 for a fan for a Worcester, they're usually around �90 to �150 depending on the model and which spares stockist you use, halstead boilers are by far the most expensive parts to buy.
personally i would go for the guy who worked for british gas for 30 years as they no doubt worked to the highest standards, did he say which was his preferred choice of boiler?
i would still go for the Worcester or Vaillant. My father who is also my boss was British gas west midlands main boiler expert for many years and he rates Vaillants as the best you can buy.
i dont think ive ever paid �200 for a fan for a Worcester, they're usually around �90 to �150 depending on the model and which spares stockist you use, halstead boilers are by far the most expensive parts to buy.
personally i would go for the guy who worked for british gas for 30 years as they no doubt worked to the highest standards, did he say which was his preferred choice of boiler?
i would still go for the Worcester or Vaillant. My father who is also my boss was British gas west midlands main boiler expert for many years and he rates Vaillants as the best you can buy.
No gucciman he did not say which one he would go for just said its up to me as they come out at the same price (roughly). He did say somthing about the baxi being easyer to wire to the present clock timer cos it ad somthing in side or somat cant remember, he said with the other 2 they mite have to run a extra wire to the cylinder but he was not sure as he forgot to look when he came round.
gucciman what did you think of the price he as quoted �1300 and that includes powerflushing the system?
cheers Rich
gucciman what did you think of the price he as quoted �1300 and that includes powerflushing the system?
cheers Rich
gucciman Can you belive i went for a combi in the end, I had a Baxi duo tech 28kw, installed in the cupboard at the top of the stairs where the cylinder went.
Got to say the guy who installed it did a awsome job we are well pleased with it, if i could have seen the state off the tanks (white silt on the sides) before hand it would have made the decision so much easyer.
I went for the baxi cos the guy said he could install it for �1500 and it has just won boiler of the year from corgi, I was getting quoted �1500 for straight replacement boiler.
Got to say thanks to everyone who gave answers, what a help ....
Got to say the guy who installed it did a awsome job we are well pleased with it, if i could have seen the state off the tanks (white silt on the sides) before hand it would have made the decision so much easyer.
I went for the baxi cos the guy said he could install it for �1500 and it has just won boiler of the year from corgi, I was getting quoted �1500 for straight replacement boiler.
Got to say thanks to everyone who gave answers, what a help ....
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