Unsecured Creitors rights

[fumingmad]

I was made bankrupt by an unsecured creditor in 2000 for a debt of �4,500.00. I was discharged bankrupt in 2003. The unsecured creditor placed a caution on my property in Nov 02. The Official Receiver also placed a caution on my property in Jan 01.
Can the unsecured creditor place a caution on my home and make me bankrupt.

[themas]

So far as I know, any creditor who is unsecured at the date of bankruptcy has to be included in the bankruptcy and canot take any action afterwards to secure their debt on the house. So, I think the answer to your qestion is no they can't. However, you need to check this with the OR who dealt with your case.

Is the OR's caution still on the property? The law changed on 2004 and ORs were given 3 years to deal with any properties of people who had been made bankrupt before 1.4.04. That period has expired so it may be that the OR's caution should be removed. You will have to ask about this as well.

[fumingmad]

The OR placed a caution on my house in Jan 01, The unsecured creditor made me bankrupt in 2000, and then he placed a caution on my house in Nov 2002. The trustee knew that the creditor also had a caution on my house. I do not believe the creditor should have done this , the trustee is guilty of negligence if he knew the creditor also placed a caution on my house

Both cautions have been removed, and all debts paid, was just wondering does the above sound correct please?

Thank you for you very good reply and advice.

[themas]

I can't give you a 100% definite answer but am pretty certain the creditor should not have placed a caution. Presumably you were notified by the Land Registry (you should have been) and could have objected or queried it with the OR/Trustee at the time. If you did this & the Trustee didn't take (or suggest you take) any action to deal with it, then they may have been negligent.

[fumingmad]

Thanks for your good reply, I did not know that the creditor had placed a caution on my property until the trustee contacted me in sept 03. If someone is made bankrupt then the debt gets written off? Or is it because I had a property that the creditor was allowed his debt, and the trustee was entitled to realise his interest from my property. I am very confused. I was made bankrupt in July 2000, for a debt of �4,500.00. I was discharged bankrupt in 2003. The trustee was appointed in Sept 03, and then started to chase me for the creditors debt. In the end I had to remortgage to pay off the unsecured creditors debt and trustee's fees. The unsecured creditor placed a caution on my house in 2002, Official Receiver placed a caution in 2001. The trustee knew that the unsecured creditor placed a caution on my house in 2002, should the trustee not have told the creditor he was not allowed to do this,as the trustee was instructed to collect the creditors debt from me.

I am 100% sure if the Land Registry sent me anything but could I write and ask them for any details, I know its some time ago, will they have copies?

Thanks in advance for all advice

[themas]

I've got a better understanding now. What was happening was in fact quite legitimate in that the Trustee could validly chase you for payment even after you were discharged from bankruptcy.

This is because when anyone goes bankrupt the OR takes over the bankrupt's interest in the house. Under the law which was in force in 2000 (which changed in 2004) the OR or Trustee could go on chasing for the debt to be paid from the house value (or could get a Court order to sell the house to pay off the creditors) indefinitely. The 2004 change limited this timescale to 3 years.

So what actually happened was clearly in accordance with the law. The fact that the creditor put his own caution on the house made no difference to the outcome. So far as I know, he shouldn't have done it and it was quite pointless and had no effect because the OR's caution was all that was necessary.

Given the above I don't think there is any point in you pursuing this matter any further unless there is some other reason why you want to do something about what the creditor did.

[fumingmad]

Thanks themas for your reply, it is greatly appreciated. I thought then when someone is made bankrupt then his debts get written off. The creditor was an unsecured creditor should the trustee not have advised the creditor to remove his caution from my house.
The trustee received �45,000.00 in fees and for my bankruptcy debt. The strange thing is that on the statutory demand that the creditor served on me the amount he was claiming he was owed was �1,087.00 and he showed the trustee a final costs certificate of �4,500.00. There was never a hearing and I was never ordered to pay this amount.
Was the amount the creditor put on the statutory demand the only amount he was entitled to? Or could he add on further money on to this amount before the bankruptcy hearing?
Please could you help answer this difficult question, thanks

[themas]

Difficult! I don't know what the rules are about adding interest or other charges on to debts once the debtor is bankrupt. What goes into the bankruptcy is any debt which was incurred before the date of the bankruptcy - plus any further interest & charges if the rules do allow this. However, so far as I know the figure on the Statutory Demand is the figure he is asking for in the bankruptcy for that particular debt. (The same creditor could have other debts due from the debtor and exclude them from the Stat. Demand, but they would still go into the bankruptcy.)

So if your creditor showed the trustee a certificate for �4500 this was - I assume - the same as the amount on the Stat. Demand & was the amount he was claiming in the bankruptcy. However, you say this was a final costs certificate so it may be that this was just his costs, and the �1087 was in addition to it.

At some stage you should have been shown some documents by the OR/Trustee, and should have had the opportunity to challenge the amount if you disagreed with it.

If you paid �45,000 and this was your only creditor then the OR/Trustee costs look absolutely out of this world! I know that bankruptcy is very expensive in terms of the OR/Trustee costs but this really does seem over the top unless there was a great deal of work involved in getting to the stage of settling it.

The Insolvency Service does have a complaints/disputes procedure & I think you should be able to find out from their website how to follow it. But if all this happened some years ago it might be too late.

[fumingmad]

Thank themas, you have given me a very good response. I know have a clearer understanding. I have put in an official complaint against the trustee and the the costs involved. There was not that much work involved in reaching a settlement.
The creditor wrote in the SD that he was owed �1,087, he should have wrote the whole amount he was owed in the SD.

Anyways thank you for taking your time making things more clear.

[fumingmad]

(So if your creditor showed the trustee a certificate for �4500 this was - I assume - the same as the amount on the Stat. Demand & was the amount he was claiming in the bankruptcy. However, you say this was a final costs certificate so it may be that this was just his costs, and the �1087 was in addition to it.)

themas you wrote this statement above. My question was that the statutory demand said �1,087. and the final costs certificate showed �4,500. The creditor did not show the trustee the statutory demand, just the FCC.

[themas]

But I take it the final costs certificate had been provided to him by the Court or some other official authority. In which case, I don't think you would have any option but to accept it.