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Accidental non payment
I bought some garden furniture from a shop the other week, paying a deposit and returning to collect the items a few days later.
When I returned, I gave my copy of the invoice, showing the deposit paid and the amount outstanding, to a member of staff, saying 'I bought this at the weekend and have come to collect it'. I went outside to drop the back seats in my car, and two staff members brought it out. They then spent 10 minutes helping me load the car up, and once it was loaded up, they said goodbye and disappared back in the store. Only after I got home did I realise I hadn't paid the balance.
Am I legally obligated to return and pay the balance, or can I keep quiet and face no legal consequences? If they get in touch (they have my phone number) do they have any right to make me pay anything, or is it just their fault and there'snothing they can do? They would have a hard time proving I didn't pay, as I was outside with a member of staff for at least 10 minutes.
Thanks in advance
When I returned, I gave my copy of the invoice, showing the deposit paid and the amount outstanding, to a member of staff, saying 'I bought this at the weekend and have come to collect it'. I went outside to drop the back seats in my car, and two staff members brought it out. They then spent 10 minutes helping me load the car up, and once it was loaded up, they said goodbye and disappared back in the store. Only after I got home did I realise I hadn't paid the balance.
Am I legally obligated to return and pay the balance, or can I keep quiet and face no legal consequences? If they get in touch (they have my phone number) do they have any right to make me pay anything, or is it just their fault and there'snothing they can do? They would have a hard time proving I didn't pay, as I was outside with a member of staff for at least 10 minutes.
Thanks in advance
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I certainly wouldn't, pablo. But then again I am not a thief.
As a business woman I can do without people with your attitude. You know you are no better than an outright shoplifter and was just hoping for posters to back up your way of thinking.
Big store or not, shoplifters and thieves like you cost each and every one of us money.
As a business woman I can do without people with your attitude. You know you are no better than an outright shoplifter and was just hoping for posters to back up your way of thinking.
Big store or not, shoplifters and thieves like you cost each and every one of us money.
Well said Ethel.
Pablo said: "Its quite amazing the percentage of people who are morally perfect in a theoretical and anonymous situation - I suggest that in reality the percentage would be somewhat lower!"
You can suggest all you like. In a similar situation I have gone back and paid, not because of any legal threat - they had no way of knowing who I was. I do not think I am an exception.
We only need laws because of a lack of morality on the part of some people.
Pablo said: "Its quite amazing the percentage of people who are morally perfect in a theoretical and anonymous situation - I suggest that in reality the percentage would be somewhat lower!"
You can suggest all you like. In a similar situation I have gone back and paid, not because of any legal threat - they had no way of knowing who I was. I do not think I am an exception.
We only need laws because of a lack of morality on the part of some people.
well what more can be said! this i feel is part of the normal life and society that we live in lets just get what we can for free ! you are a dispicable person who has take advantage of the situation but any one with any moral standing would return and pay for the goods irrelevent of a mistake being made or not. you know the store has made a mistake and you are taking advantage of the sitatuion you have no intention of paying for the goods so why bother posting the question - well i know the answer to that as well you obviously knew it would wind a lot of honest people up and you got the reaction you wanted i belive in what goes round comes round so i hope the circle doesn't take long to do it's full turn in your case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Is this not arguably an implicit acceptance of them accepting a reduced amount as payment? Contract law experts? In my mind it is certainly not 'theft'."
The Crown Prosecution Service say
"When a person gets property by another's mistake, and is obliged to make restoration in whole or part of that property, an intention not to make restoration shall be regarded as an intention to permanently deprive that person of the property - section 5 of the 1968 Act, (Archbold 21-58).
Section 6 of the 1968 Act, (Archbold 21-76) also provides assistance in situations when there has been a borrowing or lending of property in this way is to be regarded as having the intention to permanently deprive the other of it."
The act mentioned is the Theft Act 1968 by the way.
The Crown Prosecution Service say
"When a person gets property by another's mistake, and is obliged to make restoration in whole or part of that property, an intention not to make restoration shall be regarded as an intention to permanently deprive that person of the property - section 5 of the 1968 Act, (Archbold 21-58).
Section 6 of the 1968 Act, (Archbold 21-76) also provides assistance in situations when there has been a borrowing or lending of property in this way is to be regarded as having the intention to permanently deprive the other of it."
The act mentioned is the Theft Act 1968 by the way.
I don't believe you, I think you are guilty of theft, and I'll tell you why:
You say "I gave my copy of the invoice, showing the deposit paid and the amount outstanding...."
Let me put this scenario to you:
Mr Bloggs pays a deposit for an item, goes back to the store at a later date, gives invoice to staff who then return invoice to Mr Bloggs before going to the warehouse to get the rest of the goods. Mr Bloggs realises that the staff haven't asked him for the balance outstanding, and keeps "shtum" even although two staff members spend ten minutes helping Bloggs to load the goods into his car, after which they say "cheerio Mr Bloggs" and return to the store. Bloggs, realising they haven't asked him about the balance, can't believe his "luck", gets into his car and drives off. He later has pangs of guilt and decides to seek further advice about his misdemeanour.
Ring any bells?
You say "I gave my copy of the invoice, showing the deposit paid and the amount outstanding...."
Let me put this scenario to you:
Mr Bloggs pays a deposit for an item, goes back to the store at a later date, gives invoice to staff who then return invoice to Mr Bloggs before going to the warehouse to get the rest of the goods. Mr Bloggs realises that the staff haven't asked him for the balance outstanding, and keeps "shtum" even although two staff members spend ten minutes helping Bloggs to load the goods into his car, after which they say "cheerio Mr Bloggs" and return to the store. Bloggs, realising they haven't asked him about the balance, can't believe his "luck", gets into his car and drives off. He later has pangs of guilt and decides to seek further advice about his misdemeanour.
Ring any bells?
I went to a retailer today. He was only able to supply some of my requirements immediately, the rest had to be ordered. When I offered payment he said I should pay when the rest of the stuff comes in. So I left the shop with goods having parted with no money and leaving no trace of my identity.
I could get the things I need elsewhere leaving the retailer with ordered goods that he cannot sell, and a loss resulting from the unpaid goods I left with.
But i won't do that. Why? Because i am not a scumbag.
I could get the things I need elsewhere leaving the retailer with ordered goods that he cannot sell, and a loss resulting from the unpaid goods I left with.
But i won't do that. Why? Because i am not a scumbag.
I think you'll find technically, for tax purposes, all individuals as well as businesses are supposed to keep financial records for 6 years.
If the Revenue undertake an investigation and want to know what you spent �1,000 on in 2005 you ought to be able to show some evidence of what it was (albeit I'd accept most people couldn't and the chances of the Revenue investigating someone who doesn't actually submit a tax return are probably about the same as the chances of me being elected the next Pope (and I'm an athiest).
If the Revenue undertake an investigation and want to know what you spent �1,000 on in 2005 you ought to be able to show some evidence of what it was (albeit I'd accept most people couldn't and the chances of the Revenue investigating someone who doesn't actually submit a tax return are probably about the same as the chances of me being elected the next Pope (and I'm an athiest).
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