European Constitution

[Didwot]

Only ten days to go and those lucky French people get to vote on the proposed constitution. Their NON voters say it is all an Anglos Saxon ruse to liberalise everything. Our NO campaigners say it is all a French plot to tie us down. They can not both be right, unless the translation is a bit dodgy. I like Europe , but at the same time I do not want Eurpoean integration to be forced upon me. How shall I vote (if we ever have a referrendum)?

[Ralph]

Honestly? I don't know enough about it. I want to know all about it, but there is little readily available information that isn't out and out europhobe scaremongering.

I also think Europe is a good thing with more benefits to be had than concessions to be given. But now, I'll hand over to the predictable "bloody banana-straightening unelected bureaucrats" rants.

(I also think one of the continental countries is going to vote no and render your question moot)

[acw]

I agree with Ralph - we need more info.  I also think that the government has cottoned on to the idea that someone else will vote "no" first and thus they will not need to put it to the electorate at all (at least not yet).  I'm afraid I take the attitude of "cross that bridge".  I'm too busy doing other things (including offering my 2d worth here on a daily basis!!) to read up on it yet.  But when the time comes - I shall read, learn and vote. 

[kempie]

For those interested in developing an informed opinion as opposed to the standard knee-jerk reaction here's a "reader friendly" version of the EU Constitution

[Ralph]

Thanks kempie, useful stuff.

I'm heartened (and also slightly embarrased!) that there hasn't been any major rants on this question yet.

[delboy3]

bernardo must be on holiday...

The BBC news website also has a decent summary of the Constitution:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2950276.stm

and also see http://www.britainineurope.org.uk

[DavidUK]

Vote NO! This will be another step towards making a European Superstate where we will have even less influence over the things that affect us than we do now.

In our recent British election less than 1 in 5 eligible people actually voted for the government we have now; and probably most of those don't like or trust Blair. What's it going to be like when our effective government is a European government based in Brussels?

[delboy3]

There you go, Ralph, the rants have begun!

[Didwot]

Thanks for all your help, and for the links. I had given up looking for something intelligable on the EU website. I do not object to the occasional rant, and think I would put DavidUK's opinion into the strong opinion category, rather than rant, anyway.
I am a still floating voter.

[flaming]

I'm a bit fatigued with ranting on this subject.  I've just done a mini-rant on the question about "Little Englanders". I've also got my oar in on other threads.  Didwot, we've already entrusted our tax-purse to dodgy UNELECTED characters.  The Constitution ensures that no-one will be able to back out if it dawns on them that this just won't do.  At the moment we are (unfortunately) a member country of the EU.  What signing up to the  Constitution will make us is a state of the European Federation.  That means, all decisions are not made by the country concerned, because there is no country!  Tax, pensions, army, et al will be dealt with by a federation of states run by not only unelected bureaucrats, but unaccountable ones too, as well as being largely nepotistic.  At present, the EU is largely impotent in some areas, but the words 'potential' and 'dictatorship' come to mind. 

Within the states of the Federation there will be regions.  The Roman Empire had this rather nicely taped.  Luckily the Geordies said 'NO' to a North East Region in the referendum they had on the subject last year (not that the rest of the country had a chance to say anything about whether they want the UK thus carved up).  If their answer had been 'YES'  there would have been full steam ahead with other regions.  You could be in a nice region with another tier of bureacrats to support, in preparation for the Federation when it comes.

You have to decide whether you want that set-up or not.

But it will be for good, as once sovereignty is given over, and a country's army, we haven't got any say-so.  A couple of generations on and no-one will notice but should people want to do something anti-Federation, tough luck.

[flaming]

P.S. Ralph - are you a 'Ralph' or a 'Raif'. This was discussed recently on another thread on another topic.

[Ralph]

:-) I'm a Ralf Ralph. I actually answered on the other thread. I got a surprise when I saw my name "in lights" and thought I was in trouble for something!