Religion & Spirituality1 min ago
It s a miracle.
17 Answers
Has there ever been a genuine, eyewitness, independently verified religious miracle, and if the answers yes, does that prove the existence of God?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4389 00/Miracle-baby-comes-dead.html
Of course people will just say it can't be a miracle, there must be a rational physical explanation. But as there's a rational physical explanation for everything, then by definition miracles can't happen.
So no. But it's a matter of definition rather than of religion.
Of course people will just say it can't be a miracle, there must be a rational physical explanation. But as there's a rational physical explanation for everything, then by definition miracles can't happen.
So no. But it's a matter of definition rather than of religion.
-- answer removed --
A happening with no explanation is just that. We simply don't understand why it happened. It doesn't mean it was done through intervention by a deity.
I have had some remarkable experiences that appear to defy the normal expectaitons of chance. However chance is based on normal probability distribution meaning that extemely unlikely events can happen occasionally.
With so many of us on the planet even quite low probability events can be observed by someone almost on a daily basis even though a particular observer may never see it in their lifetime.
I have had some remarkable experiences that appear to defy the normal expectaitons of chance. However chance is based on normal probability distribution meaning that extemely unlikely events can happen occasionally.
With so many of us on the planet even quite low probability events can be observed by someone almost on a daily basis even though a particular observer may never see it in their lifetime.
David Hume got it in one, when he said (I'm paraphrasing) that there is no reason to believe a miracle unless the alternative explanation is even more miraculous than the alleged miracle itself.
My way of putting it is that , since a miracle has a probability of zero, any other explanation, however ridiculously improbable, is infinitely more likely.
So the answer to the original question is (a) no, and (b) not relevant, but no anyway!
My way of putting it is that , since a miracle has a probability of zero, any other explanation, however ridiculously improbable, is infinitely more likely.
So the answer to the original question is (a) no, and (b) not relevant, but no anyway!
Chakka, reading that I could almost believe you are, in reality, Sherlock Holmes! :o)
A couple of days ago, I watched a television interview with one of the survivors of a road accident. He said 'I said to God - Please save me - and he did'. Lucky man!
To answer the question, I'm not aware of any genuine, eyewitness, independently verified miracles - and if there were if wouldn't prove the existence of God. For all we know something equally obscure to us could be responsible.
A couple of days ago, I watched a television interview with one of the survivors of a road accident. He said 'I said to God - Please save me - and he did'. Lucky man!
To answer the question, I'm not aware of any genuine, eyewitness, independently verified miracles - and if there were if wouldn't prove the existence of God. For all we know something equally obscure to us could be responsible.
I think it all depends on what you are willing to believe in. Or in simple words what you are willing to accept as word belief is usually associated with religion.
I have told this here before. When I was about 10 years old, I was messing with a nest of wasps and got stung by at about nine (that I could count) different places including my neck, eyes and arms. As I ran home crying, my auntie quickly grabbed me and recited few verses from Quran and blew on stings and using her finger put a little bit of her saliva onto the spots.
Up to that point it is Ok. But if someone knows that how dangerous these wasps are especially in hot countries. Usually part of the body where they sting swells up very badly. But I did not get any swelling at all after that. Someone might say that not all of the people have swellings. That is true as I have seen that myself, but in my own case I always did as that was neither first incident nor last for me.
Now that is the reason why I said things do happen around you all the time. But it all depends how you look at them. So far I could not find any scientific explanation to that. May be someone can throw some light on that.
I have told this here before. When I was about 10 years old, I was messing with a nest of wasps and got stung by at about nine (that I could count) different places including my neck, eyes and arms. As I ran home crying, my auntie quickly grabbed me and recited few verses from Quran and blew on stings and using her finger put a little bit of her saliva onto the spots.
Up to that point it is Ok. But if someone knows that how dangerous these wasps are especially in hot countries. Usually part of the body where they sting swells up very badly. But I did not get any swelling at all after that. Someone might say that not all of the people have swellings. That is true as I have seen that myself, but in my own case I always did as that was neither first incident nor last for me.
Now that is the reason why I said things do happen around you all the time. But it all depends how you look at them. So far I could not find any scientific explanation to that. May be someone can throw some light on that.
Keyplus provides a classic example of a claim of faith healing. Let's break it down to the possible cures:
1) The verses from the Koran.
2) Saliva
3) Soothing attention from an adult
1) is untestable, but like the Bible, I bet Allah never heals amputees.
2) Saliva is alkaline and a Google search will show many citations of it being used to cure bee stings.
3) The psychology of pain is well known. For example, if you get someone to look at an injury through a magnifying device, they perceive the pain is greater. Conversely, if you get them to look through something that makes it look futher away, they percieve less pain. The attention of an adult is nearly always sought by a child because it normally makes most injuries seem less terrible, often through removing panic. Just having the child feel calmer could well be expected to lessen the perception of the injury.
Keyplus says the swelling never occured, but we cannot vouch for how good his memory is. It may be excellent, but it may be terrible. Did he really not swell up, or did he refrain from touching on the instructions of the aunt and so isn't conscious of them? Was there any other balm applied that he's simply not remembered?
There are simple too many variables to conclude anything concrete, except doubt.
Moreover,
1) The verses from the Koran.
2) Saliva
3) Soothing attention from an adult
1) is untestable, but like the Bible, I bet Allah never heals amputees.
2) Saliva is alkaline and a Google search will show many citations of it being used to cure bee stings.
3) The psychology of pain is well known. For example, if you get someone to look at an injury through a magnifying device, they perceive the pain is greater. Conversely, if you get them to look through something that makes it look futher away, they percieve less pain. The attention of an adult is nearly always sought by a child because it normally makes most injuries seem less terrible, often through removing panic. Just having the child feel calmer could well be expected to lessen the perception of the injury.
Keyplus says the swelling never occured, but we cannot vouch for how good his memory is. It may be excellent, but it may be terrible. Did he really not swell up, or did he refrain from touching on the instructions of the aunt and so isn't conscious of them? Was there any other balm applied that he's simply not remembered?
There are simple too many variables to conclude anything concrete, except doubt.
Moreover,
I don't think my memory was as bad then, ( I can't bet now though) At least I would remember my swollen eyes and I still have one mark left since then on my right arm that reminds me that I should have listened to the advice of my mother and never mess with wasps and hornets. But then I had a kind of reputation in the street as a nest destroyer. But after all these scientific and expert analysis by waldo and seconded by Naomi (as usual) the only thing I am left with is that next time I would bring one of those Wasps or hornets from Pakistan (if I ever go there in Summer) and let it sting someone and then let them apply as much saliva as they like and see if it works. Have nothing else to say.
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