car park fine

[danroll]

i'm wondering if anyone can help me.

last weekend we went for a family meal. my brother being the designated driver. the restaurant we ate at shares a car park with a supermarket and a variety of other shops. The car park has a maximum stay of two hours.

we arrived at 7:30 on sunday night (all other shops closed) and left at 9:45, 15 minutes over the maximum allowed time.

yesterday my brother received a letter, he'd exceeded the allowance by 15 minutes and has a fine (�90 i think).

is there anything we can use to dispute this, the restaurant owner has no signs making the customer aware of the time limit and the signs in the car park are shockingly discreet.

all the other shops were closed and the fine was issued by an independant company, not the council if either of those factors makes a difference?

[paraffin]

Do not reply to this mob. Do not acknowledge or have any contact with them from your point of view. Bluff them out.

Easy for me to say, but it's the only possible way out of this.

[Skyline D]

He doesn't have a fine, he has an invoice. It's not the same thing. They may refer to it as a fine but legally it isn't.

If he simply doesn't pay it they'll have the option to pursue him for it with the associated costs which is unlikely to be worth their while. If they do choose to pursue it, then they would have to prove their signage was adequate. I'd take some photos of the signs as they are in case they change them.

[New Judge]

The signage was obviously not that discreet as you were aware of the restrictions, and they were exceeded. I�m not quite sure, therefore, on what basis you would argue the case.

The issue of signage has been tested in court. It has been ruled that when using a car park the driver has a responsibility to establish the restrictions before leaving his vehicle and the restrictions do not have to be in bold letters posted every two feet. In car parks such as you describe it is usual for the notices to comply with the guidelines.

The matter of enforcement is another issue. Skyline is quite correct in that this is not a fine but an invoice for services. As such it must be pursued through the County Court if it remains unpaid. paraffin�s contention that to ignore it is a likely route to success is fraught with danger. The companies that run these operations are quite large affairs and it is not in their interests to let it become known that if you ignore their enforcement notices they will simply go away. The charges will probably increase if you do not pay early (usually within 14 days). The costs of pursuing a claim through the courts are minimal and, if you lose, will be awarded against you anyway.

It is a popular misconception that these parking enforcement organisations are cowboy affairs operating on the fringes of the law. They are usually well run businesses that know the rules by which they are bound and they will contest cases where payment is not forthcoming. Once judgement is passed bailiffs can be employed to recover the debt and with a County Court judgement against you, you may have difficulty with banking and finance. Do you really want all that for the sake of ninety quid?

My advice is to learn an expensive lesson, pay up and move on. The potential aggravation for you if you ignore the notice is likely to be far greater than for the parking company.

[up4it]

I am with the others in that you got an Invoice and not a fine and this is non-enforcable in that they would have to sue you for the money, however this is where I disagree with the normally very accurate Mr New Judge ....

You say it is a shared car park with the restaurant/supermarket - are there any charges applied for using the car park? - either before the 2 hr limit or after the 2 hr limit?

Why I ask is that they can try and sue you for the �90 fine but they will lose - they can only sue you for any losses they have incurred e.g. If there was a charge of �1 per hour and you just parked there and didnt pay and came back 3 hrs later then the firm could only sue you for the �3 that they could have earnt from a paying customer

Who in their right mind is going to sue you for �3 when the costs for doing so would be ridiculous?

If there is no charge for the car park then there is no loss to the company and therefore you do not have to pay anything - they are not going to sue you for �0

My advise is to either:-
1) ignore the notice and any subsequent follow up letters/baliff threats etc. (least preferred option)
2) write a letter back to them telling them politely that this is not payable and that any further letters or threats from them will be considered as harrassment and they will be reported to the police

Dont trust my advice check it out on www.pepipoo.com and you will find example letters there that tell them to go away ... politely of course

[Pigletion]

actually a friend of mine mentioned this the other day. He said if they charge for parking, they can only recoup their losses, not slap a fine on you.

I believe it is because of contract law, i.e. on entering car park you're entering in to contract, rather than criminal law.