Shops/Stores - extending opening hours on the Sabbath?

[smudge]

What do you think of the new proposals to extend the opening hours in shops/stores on Sundays?

[kick3m0n]

The issue of workers rights really is a non-issue.  In Scotland extended Sunday opening has been standard practise for years without any problems whatsoever.  I think it's massively over stating the church-going population of england to think there'll be any difficulties at all.  I'd imagine that the number of people going to church is dwarfed by the number shopping at a DIY store on the same day.  People up here who do work Sundays often get another day off during teh week, or are happy for the extyra days work as it's extra income.  I worked in retail when I was younger, and Sunday was just a normal working day, as it is for thousands of other professions in the country.

[LeMarchand]

"The issue of workers rights really is a non-issue."

Fair enough, so why doesn't everyone work on Sundays? It's not as if most shops are providing an essential service.

[WoWo]

Nobody is forced to work in a shop, I worked in retail managment for about 8 years (during the time when Sundy opening was first introduced to England). I liked working Sunday, got double pay and meant I could have a different day off in the week. If you don't like working Sunday then get another job is what I say.

[LeMarchand]

Lots of people went into retail with low qualifications, it's one of the career paths available to those with low to average qualifications where you have a chance of promotion.

Many shops no longer offer extra pay for Sundays: as previously stated, it is becoming part of the working week.

I still doubt that all the "I want to shop on Sunday, so the shops should be open" (get a life/hobby, btw) would be so happy if the nation decided that their profession should work Sundays. Seems to me another symptom of today's "Me, me, me" culture.

I actually no longer work in retail, but have spent enough years in the trade to know how worker's rights are being constantly eroded. Most store managers are salaried, and are expected to work "hours to fit the needs of the business" - which means late nights, Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays. If they are lucky they may be able to take some time off in lieu, but few get overtime.

[dmsjps]

Yeah, I must admit, I have to sympathise, LeMarchand, and from what I've seen about wages, salaries, etc, it's pretty cruddy money as well. That's why we all try and encourage our kids to get a decent education (but do they listen? No, they know best, just like we did, of course!) because we don't want them ending up in that kind of situation.

[silly moo]

dmsjps - you didn't offend me at all. I'm just sad that so many church congregations out there are STILL not welcoming newcomers and new ideas.

[Sasha13]

How many of the people who have answered this thread that currently work monday to friday would be happy if suddenly they potentially had to work any day of the year with the exception of Easter Sunday and Christmas Day (as I do now). I accept that I chose the job I am currently doing (and it's one of the reasons that I just got a new job) but not many people are aware of the impact that this working pattern has on them when they take on the job. For example, never getting two days off together means that I can't go home to see family and friends as they are too far away. It's easy to take weekends for granted... when you get them off every week!! Surely people can organise themselves so that they don't need to do any shopping for ONE day a week????

[stevie21]

I'm maybe in the minority here : I'm not in retail but my hours of work are slightly rubbish so having Sunday working "imposed" on me as part of my standard working week wouldn't be as much of a shock to the system as it might to others.

I think shops should open primarily to suit their customers' needs/wants and I want them open on a Sunday. Seemingly otheres here do too.
Why should Sunday be any different from any other day and why (if I want to buy something on a Sunday) am I now noticeably lacking a life or a hobby?

[LeMarchand]

Can the British public really not think of something better to do on a Sunday than go shopping? Is the point I was trying to make. Sasha13 made some good points about weekends and families that I'd forgotten re family, too.

So one person is happy to work Sundays. Any more takers?

[gerry]

I seem to recall when i was younger most shops closed on a Sunday.The only time certain shops opened in a Sunday was the weeks leading up to Christmas.I always remember that John Menzies(when it had a decent Toy Dept) was closed on a Sunday but opened for a few weeks for the build up to christmas.

A friend of mine who works in retail told me that there is a Law were you can actually opt out in working Sundays.That's what he has done.

[stevie21]

LeMarchand, in all honestly, do you expect the entire world to come to a grinding halt on a Sunday?
Are you saying that you don't do anything ever on a Sunday that requires the employment or services of anyone? You don't buy a pint of milk or go for a drive in the country and stop off for lunch somewhere?

Why exactly is Sunday any different from any other day again?

[LeMarchand]

I'm not saying that the world should grind to a halt on Sundays: the point I am trying to make is that there is no need for the shops to be open any longer than they are, and that those people who think the shops should be open 24/7 are welcome to that view - as long as they would be happy for the same sort of hours to apply to their own jobs.

As for "opting out" most current contracts only allow this if genuine religious grounds can be proven (if at all) and I can't imagine that the promotional prospects for many of the optees would be sparkling.

[stevie21]

So I should only expect nightclubs to be open and serving me vodka until 3am if I'm happy to be in work sitting at my desk at that hour? Even though my office would be closed and I'd be unable to do any work?
I'm not terribly convinced by your logic.

The same actually applies to Sunday afternoons, my office is closed then too but that doesn't mean that every company should shut up shop then.

Can ANYONE answer : why should Sundays be any different to any other day?

[LeMarchand]

stevie: If Sundays are to be "no different to any other day" then that means that you, and the rest of the country, should be at work.

[GBO]

I'm with lemarchand. The majority of those who spend their leisure time shopping are able to because they, unlike the shopworkers, have the weekend off and are free to spend their in shops. In most of  the EU the shops are shut (see www.euroconsumer.gov.uk) and they manage to enjoy themselves and run their lives without being 24/7 shopaholics. This call for extended hours is driven by certain retailers, since Sainsburys have stated that there is no demand from their customers for extended hours. Get a life folks!

[the.dr]

bad idea means us poor students are forced to work longer hrs which reduce any sort of down time for us....school monday to friday and the sat n sun full days aswell....not fair

[stevie21]

LeMarchand, that sounds like you're intentionally evading my question. I asked why "should" Sundays be any different. What's special about Sundays?
I'm not certain that I've said that they AREN'T different (in which case your argument that I should be at work might be valid).

They are different at the moment, quite obviously, as shops have Sunday trading hours but why should they be different?
Why are shops to be different from other services provided : (public) transport, flights, airports, bus and train stations, pubs, restaurants, hotels etc. not to mention more important things like hospitals.
If you can convincingly answer this rather than evade it, I'll be a convert. Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's never the case here that there's a right and wrong one but I'm far from convinced.

[LeMarchand]

OK stevie: Sundays should be different to give most of the population a day of rest, and a chance to catch up with family and loved ones. Plus it has been traditionally been a day of rest. If your answer to the latter is that tradition doesn't count for squat, then let's cancel Christmas.

If the shops were providing an essential service, I'd agree they should open - but they're not. They are providing a way for big companies to part the foolish from their money at a faster rate.

[stevie21]

We're monopolising this debate now....

Are the following *essential* services? :
(public) transport, flights, airports, bus and train stations, pubs, restaurants, hotels etc


I like the "catch up with the family" argument but we can't obey tradition blindly. While I admit that tradition has a place, we no longer nail people to trees so let's put tradition into context and use it where appropriate.