speeding - visual assessment

[kinell]

a new one on me

my mate got stopped for 'speeding' on saturday

i know the road, there is a gatso just after you enter the 30 limit

he was pulled over and given a ticket for the offence of appearing to be proceeding at 50mph

he says that the police car was going the other way and turned round to follow

the police say that his brake lights came on as he approached the gatso camera and that in their opinion he was doing 50mph (exactly apparently) in a 40 limit

so he will be offered a three and sixty deal on the basis of what?

the gatso in the area didnt flash as he was within the speed limit
presumably if the police car had vascar evidence they would have used it

so a police officers visual assessment of speed?

has he been calibrated?
what training has he had in this art?

my mate is just going to act dumb and when the penalty notice comes through just ask for the exact position of the device and the type of device used

has anyone here had experience of this type of so-called offence?
and did you refuse to be bullied into taking the fixed penalty offered?

[R1Geezer]

Personally I'd plead not guilty, the magistrate will aften go with what plod says but a bit of logical reasoning can sway them. Anyway, plod will not want to go to court etc so they'll probably dop it if he pleads not guilty.

[up4it]

I would definitely plead not guilty - what proof do they have that your mate was speeding? None - except a copper who 'thinks' he was speeding - That has got to be rubbish as it is open to abuse by coppers who just dont like the colour of your car/skin etc. - you could claim that the copper was misguided as they were travelling 40 in the other direction and your mate was going 40 so how do they judge when the effective passing speed was 80mph, I would have thought a lot of people would have trouble distingishing between 80 and 70 mph, as you say has he had specific speed training and when was the last time he had his brain calibrated

You could mention in the defense that the speed camera didnt go off so how could he be speeding - although I would say at least half the Gatso cameras about do not work (get a snooper to check), although what does not work today may work tomorrow

I think they are just trying it on to bully your mate into accepting the fixed penalty - go to court I am sure it will never make it there or at least the judge will laugh at the coppers and throw it out

[jake-the-peg]

Were these traffic officers or non-specialist police?

I believe that traffic officers count as "expert witnesses" which means that in a your word against theirs situation you lose.

[north star]

The opinion of 2 police constables or a single constable and a calibrated speedometer is enough to convict. The magistrates will believe the police.

[oldmaggie]

Did your friend get a form (cant remember what its called)telling him to take his documents to the police station?Wait for the fixed penalty form. If ( and I think that its a very BIG if ) you get one dont pay go before magistrates tell them what you have told us on here. They will not automatically believe the police and will need very firm evidence that you were speeding

[north star]

@oldmaggie - You don't get a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) for a roadside stop. There is no more paperwork to come unless s/he doesnt pay the fine and take the points but waits for the summons.

[kinell]

thanks all for the answers

yes he did get a fixed penalty notice

this was also a 'producer' for licence within seven days

the paperwork indicates that the licence will be given up , presumablly they give you a temp licence receipt

it isnt clear whether they retain the licence even if you are not about to accept the fixed pen

if so then they are presuming guilt of the offence, so much for the good old british principle of 'innocent until proved guilty'

he is going to the police station before the seven days is up and is going to keep his licence firmly in his sky until they tell him about the retention situation

as he lives very close to the nick there is no benefit to letting them have his docs earlier than necessary, he will comply with the producer and tackle the case on the basis within my question

keep you posted

[kinell]

ok, he went to the police station yesterday and established that they would not retain his licence at that point in any event of him wishing to accept the fixed pen or not

that does make more sense, he had to produce the docs within 7 days but has 28 days to accept or not the fixed pen - the leverage is the way in which the ticket is worded implying the contrary

the previously mentioned letter requesting camera type etc has now been sent off and it will be interesting to see if there is a response back within the 28 day period