When should referendums be taken?

[Oneeyedvic]

Following the Ireland referendum I was talking to a friend of mine. He was livid as he is anti-European and said that even if the vote was again rejected that it would be voted on again and again until 'they' got the yes result that 'they' wanted.

Regardless of his sentiments, when should a referendum take place and how often?

As an example, if we had in the UK a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, should one take place every (few) year(s) as things change, or should it just be the one vote and that is it.

[bazwillrun]

the EU will get their superstate no matter how many no votes or referendums countries hold. The superstate has been the plan from day one, always has been always will.

How long before they have us using the Euro ?, its only a matter of time and they know it, same for everything, they are passing laws that govern us by the shedload, they will not stop until they have subdued and conquered us.

[Lonnie]

True, The Irish had been told that if they voted 'no', then there would be another Referndum.

Shame there won't be a decider.

[Whickerman]

Just one or two clarifications. (for the record, I'm Irish)

If the referendum had failed, we would not have had another referendum. It was categorically ruled out by our taoiseach (prime minister)
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-insists-no-thirdtime-lucky-if-treaty-rejected-again-1901139.html

Further, the reason it was re-run was that the rejection last year was based on 3 or 4 main reasons -these include fear of a devaluing of our neutrality; a fear that the abortion ban would be overturned; fear that our tax system would be overruled by the EU; loss of a commissioner etc etc. The govt went to the EU and got legal guarantees on all of these issues and put it to the people again -- that's pretty fair, and the same electorate gave an overwhelming yes. Note that despite claims in the British press, we have been promised not a penny for a yes vote.

Ireland is - and always has been - pro Europe, despite the efforts of the 'Irish' versions of the Sun and the Mail. It is the single most reason for the standard of living we have compard to that of our parents. In fact, quite a few of us would welcome a federal state of Europe.Long may it last.

[Whickerman]

By the way - I agree that the UK should vote too.

[jake-the-peg]

Lisbon is needed so that change can happen in the EU

At the moment any small country can simply block anything for any reason.

To say that you want change in Europe for it to be less bureaucratic etc etc and to oppose Lisbon is downright daft.

Of course if it's just because you want the UK out of Europe and you want to sabotage it in any way possible that's another matter - if a rather dishonest one.

I don't think there's any reason to have a vote on Lisbon - many more fundamental EU treaties were agreed by the Tories.

If you want a referendum it should be whether we are in or out of Europe full stop -of Course the Tory Euroskeptics don't want that one because they think they might lose.

[R1Geezer]

Well to answer the question I think referendums should be taken when a fundamental constitutional change is proposed. Eg the first time EU law and EU courts became higher than our own, ie that surrender of sovriegnty should have been done only after the public voted for it. I don't generally agree on governing by referendum though. The government is elected to govern but there are times when the people should ratify. The current EU situation has passed the point where a referendum is useful because all the important changes have already been carried out, ie we are not an independant nation now. I agree with Jake that the only relevant vote now is on whether we should leave or stay in the EU and I don't think any government would do that because both sides of the EU debate fear the result.

[jake-the-peg]

It's the drawback of not having a proper written constitution.

If we had one then the answer would be easy - you'd need a referendum to change the constitution. If an EU treaty required a change to the constitution you'd have to have a referendum.

But we've had hundreds of years of politicians saying "You don't need things in writing - trust us"

[R1Geezer]

Yes and look where that "trust" has got us?

[jake-the-peg]

Exactly!

But you do have to be careful with constitutions - otherwise you can end up with the right to arm bears!

[Whoever]

I still want the right to vote on the Lisbon Treaty.
It's shameful that that every citizen in this country has been disenfranshised over an issue that affects us all.
Regardless of what other countries vote, we should still be able to have our say.

[R1Geezer]

well I was rueing the fact that it's got us in the EU and I'm pretty sure that jake is a Europhile!

[rov1200]

Referendums or not why don't the Tories admit they want Britain to become semi detached from the EU. But these little englanders are so short sighted. It was announced today that a group of 4 influential countries such as the US, China, Japan, and the EU should decide world financial matters. In the past the UK would have formed part of this group but because of our backward standing in the world would not be included. We can't face facts. We are now a bit part nation with little influence in global matters and we need to be in the EU as a block to be treated seriously.

[ABerrant]

Does no-one realise that the UK has already ratified the Lisbon Treaty? All talk of whether the UK should hold a referendum on this issue is moot.

[Oneeyedvic]

Jake, Yes, it would be easy if a Constitution was in place.

I don't actually agree with a referendum regarding the Lisbon treaty - when discussing it with my friends (who are very anti Europe) they could not give me any reason other than a vague 'loss of sovereignty' argument. They had no idea about the social or economic arguments, what would happen if we were to join the Euro, etc etc.

Personally I don't think that something as important as this should be left to people who have no clue, but see it as either 'useful when going on holiday' or 'insert anti European rant here'

[rov1200]

A DECLINING BRITAIN - something the Tories are leading us into

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/opinion/article.html?in_article_id=491498&in_page_id=19&in_author_id=1906&position=moretopstories

[Whickerman]

But vic - it's your future and so the vote is crucial. Here there's Referendum Commission that is charged with providing every citizen with factual information in plain language to ensure everyone gets the information needed to make a decision. A referendum is needed to change a constitution, and as has been mentioned, the UK doesn't have a written constitution.

[Lonnie]

Fromthe beginning, i've always been anti a European state, however, I believe that we should go all in, or all out, thing is, if as looks likelly, the Poles ratify it, and the Czechs also, then Britain pulls out, (hyperthetically), where does that actually leave us?.