tsar - betrayed/raped?

[tali122]

would it be fair to say that george v betrayed his cousin the tsar ?and also is there any truth that ALL members including the son were raped?( was in a newspaper article)

[jno]

I believe George wanted the Tsar brought to Britain but the government avoided doing so, fearful of importing Russian revolutionary feeling. The British, fighting a war against Germany - led by another of George's cousins, Kaiser Wilhelm - probably weren't desperate to have all George's family around; he was related to royals all over Europe, good and bad.

I don't know anything about the rape claim; where did you see it?

[shaneystar]

I am in agreement with jno.He was great friends with his cousin Tsar Nicholas and I think he was greatly distressed when he was murdered along with his family.I have found a very interesting article here

http://www.geocities.com/naciones_unidas_queenvictoria/g eorgeV4.html.

[shaneystar]

I don't think that link will work.....however the gist of it is that Lloyd George and the government had agreed to gain political asylum for the Tsar and his family but George was fearful this would affect his popularity with the people.He dithered until it was too late.He was fearful that having the Tsar and his family in England could provoke an usurge of rebublicanism.
Although it is said that George wrote to Nicholas offering him asylum but he never received the letter .

[shaneystar]

Me again.I keep getting sidetracked this morning.

I was going to put in my previous post that if you weigh up all the facts....to answer your question.. I think he did betray him in a way. It must have been a very difficult position to be in.

[jno]

Shaneystar is right (and I was wrong): it seems that it was George himself in the end who denied Nicholas asylum, at the suggestion of his advisers but rather against his own wishes. So: yes, he did betray his cousin, but because he was putting his own subjects first, which is what any king should do.

Sorry, I'm doing all this from googling, and the web isn't the most reliable source of historical interpretation. Anyone out there have a, er, book?

[THECORBYLOON]

shaneystar's link works if you knock off the ".html" bit.

[shaneystar]

I have an excellent book about him by Kenneth Rose.Mind you it was published in 1983....and I picked it up at a car boot sale.It contains extracts from his diaries and personal recollections from other members of the Royal family.I don't know if it is still available.There was a documentary about him recently on Channel Four.Wether or not it was a tie in with a book I don't know.

[tali122]

jno, ive seen rape claims about the daughters on various websites, but the ALL rape was in ...the News of the World

[mystress]

jno is right on this,

Documents (released under recent government rulings) show that it was actually George V that refused Nicholas and family asylum here(whether he did so sadly is another matter).

Just before Nicholas and family's death,two of Nicholas sisters (Xenia and Olga) had managed to escape and lived for a long while in the UK.

There has been talk for a long time about a Royal Family Concordat (A Private Treaty) that allowed the two sisters money from the Imperial Family's savings(in the Bank of England) and the rest(the majority) went to George V!

This is seen as one of the reasons that Xenia and Olga refused to recognise "Anastasia"(Whoever she was) for fear of losing any of the money.Nicholas' Mother (The Dowager Empress) recognised Anastasia,but she had money of her own,and had nothing to lose.I am not saying she WAS Anastasia,but just how George V and family may have manipulated the situation.

Oddly enough,when Edward VII died,the Royal Family was not exactly rich,but after GeorgeV's death their savings etc had multiplied enormously,so just where did it come from?

This it is assumed,is why the Royal Family(today) is so rich.

As for the rape allegations,you only have to look at where the come from to judge their validty!

[mystress]

PS:~

Just to confuse matters even futher!LOL

George V was in fact betraying two of his cousins,as both Nicholas and Alexandra were his cousins!

George V's Mother (Queen Alexandra) was sister to Dagmar (Empress Marie Feodorovna) whos son was Nicholas.

George V's Father (Edward VII) was brother to Princess Alice who was mother to Alexandra(Nicholas' wife).

[shaneystar]

Funny old lot when you sort them out !!

[smee.tracey]

And I thought my family had problems!

[Peter Pedant]

I have to say it is not often jno gets historical facts wrong. George V told Lloyd George he was not keen to grant him asylum. It coincided with a period when the British Royal family were going through a roughish patch and George didnt want them around - the Russians were regarded as notoriously dissolute and to a certain extent having brought it on themselves.

The correspondence is not particularly private, and the letters were written by his private secretary - Lord Stamfordham - gain extra points by pronouncing it STAM-fuddum - and who for even more extra points was Ld S's famous grand-daughter? yup: Diana

The bolshevik's murders were not dependent on refusal of asylum.

Rape - everyone? - poor old Dr Botvinnik - I bet he wasnt consenting....and wondering what he had done to deserve such an end.

[Peter Pedant]

Oh in terms of anastasia - we have DNA from the Russian Royal family and that matches as near as damn-it a living maternal relation - the Duke of Edinburgh.

[For the technical - the analysis was on mt-DNA and there was a little hiccough called heteroplasmy]

and we have some of Anastasia's DNA - and erm sorry no match at all.

PP

[mystress]

Thanks for the extra facts PP,they are most enlightening!