do you have to go to church to go to heaven?

[ultraman]

i have always been told ever sense i was a kid that you should always go to church and read the bible in order to go to heaven. I do believe in god and i do believe that god does take care of everyone in his own way. Sometimes I often wonder about gods intentions for some of us. i will use myself for an example about three years ago i had to leave a job that gave me full time made good money it was hard but I had found a job three days later it was good hours somewhat good pay but i was thankful to have a job. About sometime after that i had a friend that was working in a store next to the supermarket that i worked at He told me that they were cutting his hours and he needed a another job so i told him that if he needed a job I would help him get one at the store i worked at. and that is what i did I put in a good word for him and he got hired shortly after. that is just one example but I often wonder why this happened sometimes i think god used me to help someone else find a better job not use me in a bad way but i think god made certain events happen to me in order to help my friend out. What does it mean

[naomi24]

Keyplus, So God imposed mental torture upon Abraham and his son to enable Abraham to pass a test, the outcome of which God already knew - and you think that's good? In that case, I question your moral judgement. What an evil, twisted, entity you worship.

[craft1948]

sorry Mark what do you mean?

[MarkRae]

Naomi - I could not agree more! How on earth can rational people in this day and age believe in this mumbo jumbo...?

[MarkRae]

http://en.wikipedia.o...uncertainty_and_doubt

I've known several Catholics very well, one intimately, who no longer profess their faith yet admit grudgingly that their childhood indoctrination (I term it brain-washing) is so deeply rooted that they will indeed be screaming for a priest on their death-bed...

[naomi24]

Mark, I was going to say 'God knows', but on second thoughts the clue is in the word 'rational'.

[naomi24]

Actually I was going to say to Craft that old habits die hard - and I think they do. When people have been indoctrinated from birth, it's very difficult to remove all traces of it.

[craft1948]

My father was a shetlander and his family belonged to Lerwick Free Church....where does catholocism come into it..........I'm not trying to be difficult, this is a genuine question.......why do some atheists discover God on their deathbeds?

[craft1948]

oh and when he didn't die he immediately reverted to atheism.....

[MarkRae]

Naomi - know your place! After all, your matriarch was created from one of my patriarch's ribs.. ;-) A talking snake told me that, so it must be true.

http://en.wikipedia.o...ki/Transubstantiation - that's tantamount to religious cannibalism!

I have no problem whatsoever in believing that approximately two thousand years ago a chap we now call Jesus existed, and that we know of him now because he gained a certain degree of infamy by saying how good it would be to love each other instead of killing each other. But that simply means he was a bit of an old hippie - doesn't make him the son of god!

[MarkRae]

> why do some atheists discover God on their deathbeds?

For the same reason that people take out a huge insurance policy just before burning the house down...

[naomi24]

As I said, Craft, when people have been indoctrinated - and religion is indoctrination - old habits die hard.

Mark, oops sorry .... my mistake ........//tugs forelock and curtsies//.

I like to think of Jesus as a bit of an old hippy too - but in fact I think he was much more than that. That's not to say I think he was the son of God, or anything remotely like it. :o)

Bedtime for me, but nice talking to you both.

Night all. x

[craft1948]

night naomi.....interesting as ever....x

[MarkRae]

Always a pleasure, never a chore...

[grannie39]

I just remembered something I learnt long ago, whilst having this debate,one sage in the group said, 'there are no atheist's on the battlefield' just a thought,

[jake-the-peg]

Not quite sure what that's meant to mean Grannie

People say strange things when they're frightened and dying - many call for their mothers

It doesn't mean their mothers will save them any more than a big bearded man who looks like Charton Heston lives in the sky

[brionon]

darcydark Report This(Wed 23:44 03/Feb/10) Religon isn`t being a christian, if you believe in God, trust in him, ask him into your heart you will be going to heaven whatever church or religon you belong to.

You,Obviously,ain't read the bible.

[Ankou]

"there are no atheists on the battlefield"

yes, its always those blinking religious ones wanting to have wars and fight each other !

[keyplus90]

Grannie – It would have been better to say that there is not atheist on a sinking ship as that is used more often and is very true as well.

Craft – What you are saying about your father is right and I know a couple of people too who never believed in God until they got to the operation table. And that reminded me few verses of Quran where God says exactly the same that how people think of him when in trouble and once out of that they pretend that it never happened.

Jake – I do believe in God but I don’t believe that he is a bearded man who looks like Charlton Heston.