Crosswords4 mins ago
Selling a Car privately.., buyer now says lots of problems what is our position legally?
18 Answers
We sold an R reg Frontera on ebay for £1000ish. My OH who is a mechanic had completely reconditioned the engine a year before, serviced it, bought a new 3 year guarantee battery within last 3 months, replaced the clutch 3 months ago and checked the car over thoroughly before selling and there were no faults showing when tested using vauxhall software. The car was very reliable for its age and we sold it as such. There was the occasional problem starting it from cold (I do mean occasional) and he was told about this, its not uncommon with these cars of this age.
Yet the buyer has come back to us three weeks later with a long list of repairs, saying he's paid more than he paid for the car to repair it (he says he's been told even the tyre's won't pass an MOT when it was MOT'd days before he took it away and not even an advisory on it).., he says it has never been serviced, the battery wasn't new, he said the diff had gone initially (we offered to replace it), then it was something else.., wheel wobble the lot. Now he says the big end has gone (big end's don't just go.., u get rattles way before they go and there were defo no rattles before we sold it) and he's saying he couldn't return it to us cause it dumped 5 litres of oil on the floor (?????).
I have seen another post where it says that legally, we do have to make repairs to make the car 'fit for purpose' which is gonna be a nightmare. Do we have to pay for all this (as u can probably tell, I don't see how the car could need all the expensive repairs he says it needs or has paid to have done). Obviously I am extremely upset he has had these problems but it looks like from what has been said, we could be paying out more than we got for the car.
The car was our personal car, and was sold as a private sale. What is our position?
Yet the buyer has come back to us three weeks later with a long list of repairs, saying he's paid more than he paid for the car to repair it (he says he's been told even the tyre's won't pass an MOT when it was MOT'd days before he took it away and not even an advisory on it).., he says it has never been serviced, the battery wasn't new, he said the diff had gone initially (we offered to replace it), then it was something else.., wheel wobble the lot. Now he says the big end has gone (big end's don't just go.., u get rattles way before they go and there were defo no rattles before we sold it) and he's saying he couldn't return it to us cause it dumped 5 litres of oil on the floor (?????).
I have seen another post where it says that legally, we do have to make repairs to make the car 'fit for purpose' which is gonna be a nightmare. Do we have to pay for all this (as u can probably tell, I don't see how the car could need all the expensive repairs he says it needs or has paid to have done). Obviously I am extremely upset he has had these problems but it looks like from what has been said, we could be paying out more than we got for the car.
The car was our personal car, and was sold as a private sale. What is our position?
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Your only obligation in law is to ensure the car was as described when you sold it.
So, if you just advertised it as an R reg Frontera, white, mot'd then that is what you must sell.
If you described as 'fully reconditioned engine, brand new clutch, brand new battery' then that must be truthful.
Statements of opinion such as 'good runner, reliable' are meaningless as they are open to interpretation and have no real meaning.
So, if you are confident the car was sold as described you have no other obligation to the buyer.
If he wanted a warranty or guarantee he should have bought from a dealer.
So, if you just advertised it as an R reg Frontera, white, mot'd then that is what you must sell.
If you described as 'fully reconditioned engine, brand new clutch, brand new battery' then that must be truthful.
Statements of opinion such as 'good runner, reliable' are meaningless as they are open to interpretation and have no real meaning.
So, if you are confident the car was sold as described you have no other obligation to the buyer.
If he wanted a warranty or guarantee he should have bought from a dealer.
Thank you very much for your replies.
From looking on this site.., the 'sold as seen' clause is actually illegal. Even with a private seller the car has to be sold 'fit for purpose' - in the case of second hand goods, taking into account the price and age of the car. So we could be in trouble from that point of view.
However, we do have receipts that demonstrate we replaced the parts said and as my OH had help reconditioning the engine, we can have an independent witness that this was done. I can't 'prove' the wheels had no wobble except via the same witness who drove the car to the MOT, and the same for the absence of a rattle indicating the big end was on the way out.
I don't like that the buyer is in this position, but what he is saying is wrong with the car also just does not make sense.
From looking on this site.., the 'sold as seen' clause is actually illegal. Even with a private seller the car has to be sold 'fit for purpose' - in the case of second hand goods, taking into account the price and age of the car. So we could be in trouble from that point of view.
However, we do have receipts that demonstrate we replaced the parts said and as my OH had help reconditioning the engine, we can have an independent witness that this was done. I can't 'prove' the wheels had no wobble except via the same witness who drove the car to the MOT, and the same for the absence of a rattle indicating the big end was on the way out.
I don't like that the buyer is in this position, but what he is saying is wrong with the car also just does not make sense.
I've seen this on a CAB website (copied the words cause the site deals mainly with buying from dealers):
You have very few legal rights if you have bought the vehicle from a private seller rather than a dealer.
The vehicle doesn't have to be of satisfactory quality. However, if the seller offers a description of the vehicle, it must match the description given. It must also be roadworthy and the seller must have 'good title' to the vehicle. This means that they must be the legal owner in order to sell it to you.
If the vehicle doesn't match the description given, you may be entitled to compensation. You may also be entitled to compensation if you have bought an unroadworthy car from a private seller, which has caused injury to someone.
So hopefully we are ok as we can prove we replaced the bits we said we did in the advert.
You have very few legal rights if you have bought the vehicle from a private seller rather than a dealer.
The vehicle doesn't have to be of satisfactory quality. However, if the seller offers a description of the vehicle, it must match the description given. It must also be roadworthy and the seller must have 'good title' to the vehicle. This means that they must be the legal owner in order to sell it to you.
If the vehicle doesn't match the description given, you may be entitled to compensation. You may also be entitled to compensation if you have bought an unroadworthy car from a private seller, which has caused injury to someone.
So hopefully we are ok as we can prove we replaced the bits we said we did in the advert.
I've seen this on a CAB website (copied the words cause the site deals mainly with buying from dealers):
You have very few legal rights if you have bought the vehicle from a private seller rather than a dealer.
The vehicle doesn't have to be of satisfactory quality. However, if the seller offers a description of the vehicle, it must match the description given. It must also be roadworthy and the seller must have 'good title' to the vehicle. This means that they must be the legal owner in order to sell it to you.
If the vehicle doesn't match the description given, you may be entitled to compensation. You may also be entitled to compensation if you have bought an unroadworthy car from a private seller, which has caused injury to someone.
So hopefully we are ok as we can prove we replaced the bits we said we did in the advert.
You have very few legal rights if you have bought the vehicle from a private seller rather than a dealer.
The vehicle doesn't have to be of satisfactory quality. However, if the seller offers a description of the vehicle, it must match the description given. It must also be roadworthy and the seller must have 'good title' to the vehicle. This means that they must be the legal owner in order to sell it to you.
If the vehicle doesn't match the description given, you may be entitled to compensation. You may also be entitled to compensation if you have bought an unroadworthy car from a private seller, which has caused injury to someone.
So hopefully we are ok as we can prove we replaced the bits we said we did in the advert.
Tell the buyer to provide you with an AA or RAC report, tell them you will refund the cost of this when presented.
As others have said, as long as you told the truth when selling, then the buyer has made an informed decision to purchase.
It sounds like a bit of a scam to me, if someone had sold me a car as bad as they are claiming, I would have took it back to them on a trailer.
As others have said, as long as you told the truth when selling, then the buyer has made an informed decision to purchase.
It sounds like a bit of a scam to me, if someone had sold me a car as bad as they are claiming, I would have took it back to them on a trailer.
Is your OH a qualified mechanic (with proof of such)or a knowledgeable amateur?
Just wondering,cos if the buyer took things further,would this matter?
I dont have anything useful to add,I was just wondering.You seem to of been more than helpful to the buyer,lets face it buying a car privately can be hit and miss,let alone eBay.
You didnt provide a guarantee so why should you pay/refund and repairs.Just my opinion.Good luck. Aya
Just wondering,cos if the buyer took things further,would this matter?
I dont have anything useful to add,I was just wondering.You seem to of been more than helpful to the buyer,lets face it buying a car privately can be hit and miss,let alone eBay.
You didnt provide a guarantee so why should you pay/refund and repairs.Just my opinion.Good luck. Aya
Thanks. I've said to him that his list of repairs done/required is highly suspicious and we have done the work we said we had. Told him no more angry phone calls/texts., and to take the situation to a solicitor if he feels the need. I've even given him the phone number of VOSA to check the MOT (as he says the tyres won't pass an MOT but they actually did a few days before he collected the car).
The texts and phone calls have since stopped and I'll see what happens. Its a shame because this car couldn't have been more reliable once the engine was reconditioned taking into account its age.
The texts and phone calls have since stopped and I'll see what happens. Its a shame because this car couldn't have been more reliable once the engine was reconditioned taking into account its age.
Sorry, he isn't a qualified mechanic (reasons for that) but he does have many years of experience working in garages as a mechanic (he is now). Believe u me, he knows what he's doing (saved quite a few people a lot of money when they bring cars to him after a garage has said their car needs a fortune spent on it or a repair need has been misdiagnosed). Its why we don't trust garages at all having seen the bad/inappropriate work they can charge for and having to fix the results lol. He's the sort of guy who doesn't give up til he's found the problem and fixed it. That's why we can't understand what's happening with the Frontera.
i'm in a similar situation myself , sold a car in december privatly via ebay . In march the buyer has emailed me to say the engine has gone . He is trying to claim that he hasn't used the vehicle in the almost 3 months he's owned it ( and saying he hasn't even started it since driving it home and putting it in his garage ) . I know the car was fine had very recently passed an mot and had just been serviecd .
I had said on the advert that the car could be viewed at anytime and had put my phone number twice and also email address , when he can to collect it i also offered to let him take it for a test drive and to check the vehicle , all of which he refused . He has filled out a receipt saying what time and date he bought the car and also put " bought as seen " . Later that day after driving the vehicle home ( i believe the distance was about 40 miles ) he also left me positive feedback on ebay stating " A1 great ebayer " .
Just wanted to get some advise on where you believe i stand . He's trying to say i must of known of this fault ( low oil pressure and knocking )as i was using the car daily , however i know the car was fine and had listed the few faults the car did have . One of which was a small oil leak from rocker cover , other 2 were minor bodywork blemishes . I believe this either a scam by him to get some money out of me or to offload a car he's damaged in the almost 3 months owned it . And if it did have these problems like he say WHY didn't he notice them !
Thanks for reading this omittely long comment . Paul
I had said on the advert that the car could be viewed at anytime and had put my phone number twice and also email address , when he can to collect it i also offered to let him take it for a test drive and to check the vehicle , all of which he refused . He has filled out a receipt saying what time and date he bought the car and also put " bought as seen " . Later that day after driving the vehicle home ( i believe the distance was about 40 miles ) he also left me positive feedback on ebay stating " A1 great ebayer " .
Just wanted to get some advise on where you believe i stand . He's trying to say i must of known of this fault ( low oil pressure and knocking )as i was using the car daily , however i know the car was fine and had listed the few faults the car did have . One of which was a small oil leak from rocker cover , other 2 were minor bodywork blemishes . I believe this either a scam by him to get some money out of me or to offload a car he's damaged in the almost 3 months owned it . And if it did have these problems like he say WHY didn't he notice them !
Thanks for reading this omittely long comment . Paul
You say that the Frontera was MOT'd a few days prior to the sale, well the certificate will prove it's in a safe & road legal condition; therefore you (as a seller) have done everything you are supposed to / that's expected from you.
From what you describe about the complaints made, it sounds like the buyer is trying to make you believe there are faults / defects which you’re obliged to pay for the repair of.
In the simplest way possible, explain that when you sold the car it had no defects. It has passed MOT 3 days before you brought it. If he still feels that you sold the car with all the above problems then he should seek legal advice. (Did he not test drive the car, presuming he did..... there's a 99% chance that he would have noticed at least 1 problem / even on way home?) Maybe it would be worthwhile for you to also go to Citizen’s advice and see what areas (if you haven't already) need to cover, should he decide to bring the matter before a Magistrate in a civil court, you are able to provide and refer to your documentation.
Best of luck and keep us all updated!
Kind regards
Simon
From what you describe about the complaints made, it sounds like the buyer is trying to make you believe there are faults / defects which you’re obliged to pay for the repair of.
In the simplest way possible, explain that when you sold the car it had no defects. It has passed MOT 3 days before you brought it. If he still feels that you sold the car with all the above problems then he should seek legal advice. (Did he not test drive the car, presuming he did..... there's a 99% chance that he would have noticed at least 1 problem / even on way home?) Maybe it would be worthwhile for you to also go to Citizen’s advice and see what areas (if you haven't already) need to cover, should he decide to bring the matter before a Magistrate in a civil court, you are able to provide and refer to your documentation.
Best of luck and keep us all updated!
Kind regards
Simon
The simplest solution is to tell him to take you to court and that you will enter into no further correspondence except via a solicitor. Bit of a bluff I know, but unless he feels he has a genuinely strong case he will back off, considering the legal costs involved, which would probably be more than what he paid for the car in the first place.
p.s. This does not mean that you necessarily have to get a solicitor, only that you will correspond with his solicitor, and not directly.
p.s. This does not mean that you necessarily have to get a solicitor, only that you will correspond with his solicitor, and not directly.
Think Mike's hit `the nail on the head` about calling his bluff, because for starters.....it is his word against yours. If I was a judge, I would throw the case out within 30 seconds of reading the buyers reason's for bringing you to court, in hope you being liable for all faults since the sale of the veichle.
Yes, I agree as he didn't test drive the car, and is reporting faults three months after buying the car, u have no liability whatsoever (he has no way to prove he didn't drive the car for three months I would imagine). Do the same I did, just tell him to seek a solicitors advice (haven't heard from him since). It has a recent MOT so is 'fit for purpose' i.e. safe to drive which is all it needs to be. He can only have come back if u are a dealer offering a warranty for more than three months in this situation.
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