INNOCENT - section 5 Public Order Offense

[Sue28]

Hi, i'd like some advice please. My brother walked through an open field park with 3 of his mates at 10.30 one evening to get to their car on the other side. Minding their own businesss when they were approached by a man accompanied by a woman. This man made allegations that they were looking at his woman, he didnt speak English very well and they didnt understand much of what he was on about. They found his accusation rather hillarious as they are age 20 and this couple were 40+ which is very old to them. Anyway, One of his friends told this guy to get lost and another told him to F*OFF and they walked away. They were later stopped by the Police and my brother was pulled over and told he matched a suspect description and issued with £80 fine. He wasn't given a chance to explain anything. My brother is not a trouble maker. He insists nothing more happened and he himself nither Said or Did anything to this man. He has no interest in this man or his woman. So why does he have to pay £80? the other option is to go to Court and end up with a Criminal Record if the judge finds him guilty. I keep telling him there is no Evidence and he is Innocent as he didnt do anything but he wants to pay £80 and get it over with. This means the Police can dish out fines and people will pay them even when they not guilty becasue they could end up with a record??

[northernmonkey]

For a full insight to reasons for fine then your brother would of got full situation and why the penalty tickets been issued explained to him and the chance to ask any questions about the incident. And should your brother wish to appeal then will be explained how on payments section of ticket and it might be just simple reason of 1 person telling to fuk off and the clothing ect was all could be remembered therefore he ended up with consequence that his mate should of admitted really if hes a true mate and not scared to admit responsibilty for actions

[northernmonkey]

In additon, the fact your brother could be described must be something the police consider as invovlement in incident and will act accordingly to statements made and if your brother went into custody that would be something he would clearly look at penalty ticket as very lucky and consider huge warning and friends might be worth staying away from before influence any criminal offences leading to something always on police computer for life and any employer will see offence if was to carry out crb check and might be prevention for a lot of jobs

[northernmonkey]

Sorry can't see point in using time when Sue wouldn't notice, reason I say that is due to offence being incorrectly spelt which is worrying really as would expect to read whatever typed to make sure it's all very understandable and has every detail which is case related but maybe I am just thinking how I would look at something.

[Sue28]

thankyou for your responses. My brother was singled out because the police man told him he matched the description given by the Man and the "altercation" in the park. The officer accused my brother of coming onto this mans woman and issued him with a penalty for "using threatening, abusive, insulting language or behaviour" & "Causing harrassment alarm or distress". Only he was given a penalty ( because he matched the description). though my brother insists he did not say or do anything. When he tried to explain the policeman didnt want to know and told my brother to take the penalty or be arrested and go down the station. The evidence they said was the Man's statement ( however my brother says the man did not speak English well as they did not understand him). The story is as simple as that. They issued a penalty and told my bro to be on his way. my brother says he did not approach these people nor did he say anything to either one of them. The man approached them and made accusations which resulted in his mates telling him to get lost & F*OFF. They did not leer at this mans woman, they not threaten either of them, they did not apprach them. Basically my brother doesnt want to take option2, go to court and end up with a criminal record especially as hes not done anything

[brenda]

If your brother is prepared to lose £80, without questioning what he is supposed to have done ,then he must have done something and knows it.Cannot believe he is not prepared to fight his corner with all his mates telling the same story.Sounds very odd to me.

[Sue28]

Thank you EDDIES51 for all the info. We'll see what my brother decides and maybe i'll even post an update later. My brother doesnt want to lose £80 but sees it as the easier option as i think the idea of appearing in court stressing him out a bit, he's not really the confident type and it says on the penalty notice that if you found guilty you pay court costs and could get a criminal record which my bro doesnt want. i've told him its impossible him get a criminal record because he didnt do anything and he has 3 of his mates as witnesses. so we'll see

[zbearspirit]

Hi As someone who has knowledge about this subject these are my observations.
Your brother should not pay the £80.00 fine for the following reasons. I doubt the Police Officer could have got the full facts of what happened, as I suspect he did not speak the foreign language fluent enough to be able to make a rational judgement. I suspect that the Police Officer was under an obligation by his supervisors to issue more Fixed Penalty tickets, so your brother was targetted by the Officer. Your brother has witnesses and if you know the definition of Section 5 Public Order Act you will know that in these circumstances it has to be witnessed by a Police Officer. If I was your brother I would go to the Police station where the Fixed Penalty ticket was issued and make a formal complaint to the Duty Inspector and ensure that your brother, does not get 'fobbed off', at the Police Station, This is not British justice and your brother has been wronged. Your brother wont get a Criminal record by not paying the fine.