ChatterBank0 min ago
Politics-Proportional Representation
With the Election looming, I am still undecided as to who I will be voting for. As someone who has been a bit lazy in the past when it comes to voting, I would now like to be sure that my vote is based on what is good for me and my family.I have read all of the 3 main Parties Manifestos, and have watched the Minesterial debates so far.
I am getting a better understanding of everything, but one thing is still confusuing me, and this is proportional representation. Please could someone explain to me (in simple terms) what exactly does proportional representation mean? For example, if there is a hung parliment ,I have read that the Lib Dems are more likely to join forces with Labour because they would get what they wanted, which is proportional representation, but I am still uncler exactly what this means.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
I am getting a better understanding of everything, but one thing is still confusuing me, and this is proportional representation. Please could someone explain to me (in simple terms) what exactly does proportional representation mean? For example, if there is a hung parliment ,I have read that the Lib Dems are more likely to join forces with Labour because they would get what they wanted, which is proportional representation, but I am still uncler exactly what this means.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Answers
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I cannot offer any advice as to whom you should vote for but:
Proportional representation is based simply on the percentage of votes cast i.e
if there were 100 seats and you party got 15% of the vote you would get 15 seats.
Pro's are that everyone is represented.
Con's You never get a majority Government so nothing really gets done , witness Italy in the 70's - Extreamist parties get to a seat (and a voice).
There are various deriivations.
Proportional representation is based simply on the percentage of votes cast i.e
if there were 100 seats and you party got 15% of the vote you would get 15 seats.
Pro's are that everyone is represented.
Con's You never get a majority Government so nothing really gets done , witness Italy in the 70's - Extreamist parties get to a seat (and a voice).
There are various deriivations.
Currently we have First past the post = You need the most seats to win.
PR, in deadly simplistic terms, means if a party gets 30% of the vote, they'll get 30% of the parliamentary seats.
Spare ed
P.S. Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.o...tional_representation
PR, in deadly simplistic terms, means if a party gets 30% of the vote, they'll get 30% of the parliamentary seats.
Spare ed
P.S. Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.o...tional_representation
You are probably the only person in the country who has read all the manifestos.
I haven't even seen one !
PR will never work, and will never happen.
Suppose in 3 constituencies, the votes are the same, ie:
Labour 50%
LibDem 30%
Cons 20%
Labour win all 3 seats.
Under PR, LibDem would claim that they got a third of the votes, so they want a third of the seats.
So one Labour MP, despite winning his seat by a big majority, would have to give up his seat for a LibDem.
And the voters in that constituency, despite voting for a Labour MP, would have to accept a LibDem.
Can you see that ever happening?
Watch my lips ... It ... will ... NEVER ... happen ... !!!
I haven't even seen one !
PR will never work, and will never happen.
Suppose in 3 constituencies, the votes are the same, ie:
Labour 50%
LibDem 30%
Cons 20%
Labour win all 3 seats.
Under PR, LibDem would claim that they got a third of the votes, so they want a third of the seats.
So one Labour MP, despite winning his seat by a big majority, would have to give up his seat for a LibDem.
And the voters in that constituency, despite voting for a Labour MP, would have to accept a LibDem.
Can you see that ever happening?
Watch my lips ... It ... will ... NEVER ... happen ... !!!
-- answer removed --
the sad thing is that your vote will not count anyway. It'll be wiped out by some brainless twerp voting for some vacuos reason. You can spend 40 years studying and learining the isues but you still have 1 vote some 18 year old snotty will vote for who they think is the trendiest and it's bye bye to your vote!
Not right - Say you would have voted party A but don't and 2m others dont vote for party A party B gets in by default and if they win by 500k its your fault.
If you don't vote you have abstained from the political process and therfore forfeit the right to voice any opinion about the government.
I could go on
If you don't vote you have abstained from the political process and therfore forfeit the right to voice any opinion about the government.
I could go on
The major problem with the situation today is that suppose in EVERY 650 seats Labour got 50% of the votes and Tories got 49% of the votes and everyone else got none (simple example).
So we would have 650 Labour MPs and NO Tory MPs (even though 49% of the people voted Tory).
Proprtional represenation would change that.
So a city like say Manchester would have say 20 MPs (not sure how many they have).
Eveyone in Manchester would vote, and it might finish up Labour 40% of votes, Tory 40%, Liberal 20%.
So Manchester as a whole would get 8 Labour MPs, 8 Tory MPS and 4 Liberal MPs.
This would be based on a PROPORTION of the total vote for Manchester.
So we would have 650 Labour MPs and NO Tory MPs (even though 49% of the people voted Tory).
Proprtional represenation would change that.
So a city like say Manchester would have say 20 MPs (not sure how many they have).
Eveyone in Manchester would vote, and it might finish up Labour 40% of votes, Tory 40%, Liberal 20%.
So Manchester as a whole would get 8 Labour MPs, 8 Tory MPS and 4 Liberal MPs.
This would be based on a PROPORTION of the total vote for Manchester.
If you live in a safe seat your vote really doesn't count at all right now.
A party that has good support but that support is spread uniformly might never win seats because they're almost forever in second place.
In PR that problem is addressed - there are various forms but in the end any party that has significant support will get some seats.
Dave has predictably tried to scare you with horror stories of Italy - But PR is generally practiced in most countries - Nobody says PR - look what happens in Germany!!!
It's more likely that no government will win an absolute majority but that doesn't have to be a problem
In the UK coalition governments tend top fail because the major party drags it's feet until it thinks it can win a majority.
If that is less likely they will have to reach consensus
The negative side is that people like UKIP and BNP and others would almost certainly get MPs and would use that to get publicity outweighing their importance because of their extreme views.
It is highly unlikely that the voting system would be changed in this country without a referendum. The only justification for that would be if a party like the Lib Dems were to have it prominently in their manifesto and win a majority under the existing rules. They could then claim a mandate for it.
More likely a referendum on it will be a condition of Liberal support for a minority government.
For an "idiots guide" to PR and countries using it see here
A party that has good support but that support is spread uniformly might never win seats because they're almost forever in second place.
In PR that problem is addressed - there are various forms but in the end any party that has significant support will get some seats.
Dave has predictably tried to scare you with horror stories of Italy - But PR is generally practiced in most countries - Nobody says PR - look what happens in Germany!!!
It's more likely that no government will win an absolute majority but that doesn't have to be a problem
In the UK coalition governments tend top fail because the major party drags it's feet until it thinks it can win a majority.
If that is less likely they will have to reach consensus
The negative side is that people like UKIP and BNP and others would almost certainly get MPs and would use that to get publicity outweighing their importance because of their extreme views.
It is highly unlikely that the voting system would be changed in this country without a referendum. The only justification for that would be if a party like the Lib Dems were to have it prominently in their manifesto and win a majority under the existing rules. They could then claim a mandate for it.
More likely a referendum on it will be a condition of Liberal support for a minority government.
For an "idiots guide" to PR and countries using it see here
Jake "-Nobody says PR - look what happens in Germany" I wasn't scaring and not all of Germany is done by proportinal representation around 50% are voted in a first past the post whilst the other 50% are voted PR.
Italy isn't a scare story it had around 30 elections in the 70's.
Given my choice I would adopt France's policy of if you don't get 50% in a seat the top two play off a week later.
Italy isn't a scare story it had around 30 elections in the 70's.
Given my choice I would adopt France's policy of if you don't get 50% in a seat the top two play off a week later.
Thank you all for your answers, I now understand what PR is, and can see both the Pros and Cons.
@ Steve.5, I know it is not compulsory to vote, but I agree with Dave in that I have no right to complain about our Government if I do not use my vote. My party might not win, but at least I will have voted.
@ Steve.5, I know it is not compulsory to vote, but I agree with Dave in that I have no right to complain about our Government if I do not use my vote. My party might not win, but at least I will have voted.
Proportional representaion in its purest form wont work. There are numerous examples of this.
However I personally, despite being a right wing tory, oppose the current system. There must be a way that the votes cast can be more representative but still produce a winning party.
Currently it is posisbel for labour (but could be tory) to be third but still be in Govenrment. This is simply not correct and needs amendment.
Please use your vote, no matter what party you vote for. It is important, even if you feel it will do no good. If you are really P*ssed of at all the parties then go down and destry your paper, at least you will have made a point. People I hate most are those that stay at home and then moan.
However I personally, despite being a right wing tory, oppose the current system. There must be a way that the votes cast can be more representative but still produce a winning party.
Currently it is posisbel for labour (but could be tory) to be third but still be in Govenrment. This is simply not correct and needs amendment.
Please use your vote, no matter what party you vote for. It is important, even if you feel it will do no good. If you are really P*ssed of at all the parties then go down and destry your paper, at least you will have made a point. People I hate most are those that stay at home and then moan.
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