Why do all the PC brigade love islamic terrorists and hate Israel?

[R1Geezer]

They only do what we all wish our governments had the balls to do and the Islington set are spitting out their organic peace lentils. I favour no religion but I do support the way Israel couldn't give a rats ar5se about world opinion when it comes to protection themselves from Terrorism.

[R1Geezer]

so the 20 soldiers should have let themselves be murdered then Gromit, is that what you are saying? You also seem to be saying that they wanted to run the blockade because certain things would have been confiscated, so you are really saying that the Israeli's should have stood aside and let them violate their blockade. Do you reallly think that they where ever going to do that? Dis the people on board imagine that they should have been allowed to pass?

OK over to you guys, you are in Israeli shoes, what would you have done in this situation?

[Gromit]

// so the 20 soldiers should have let themselves be murdered then Gromit //

The attack was state sponsored terrorism and the 20 soldiers should never have been in that situation. At best, it was a botched operation leaving 15 civilians from one of Israel's closest allys in the region dead.

The palestinians do not seem to be short of guns and rockets. There is as yet no evidence that these ships were carrying any such (though I wouldn't be surprised if some are now planted by Israeli Intelligence to justify a botched job).

What they are short of is Concrete. Israel does not what infrastructure to be rebuilt in Gaza because its whole policy to the Palestinians is not one of equal respect but of subjugation.

Israel says concrete is banned, but that adds to the suffering of Palestinian civilians and should be ignored as the blockade is itself illegal.

[R1Geezer]

you seem to be dodging the question Gromit, should the soldiers have sacrificed themselves? Presumably after a sudden Guilt complex at their "nasty" governement? What do you think sould have happenned if they laid down their arms? mm?

[Gromit]

Not dodging the question at all.

A soldiers job is to kill people. The argument is whether the Government that sent him there to kill is acting right or wrong. I believe it was wrong.

[R1Geezer]

ok Given that they are actually there rightly or wrongly, what should the soldiers have done?

[jno]

I see you haven't answered my question, geezer. Who were you supporting in 1946, when Zionist terrorists were killing Brits?

http://en.wikipedia.o...g_David_Hotel_bombing

And do you think this might answer your original question?

[Gromit]

Turkey and Israel have been very strong allies for a long time. They share intelligence and their soldiers and Navies regularly practice manoeuvres together. Turkey has long been an ally of the US and a long standing member of NATO.

Turkey was Israels only friend in the area, and regularly supported Israel.

So this botched operation, with 15+ dead Turkish civilians is likely to cause Israel more harm than good in the long run. It has lost a good ally, and the Turks will avenge this at some time in the future. Like Israel, the Turks can be vicious when they feel justified.

[R1Geezer]

I'm British, I support Britain, I thought that was obvious.

[R1Geezer]

So Gromit what should the soldiers have done? simple question, you seem to be avoiding.

[Gromit]

A soldiers job is to kill people and to follow orders.

A Government's job is to not put its Military personnel into unnecessary danger.

Whichever way you look at it, this was a botched operation and will do Israel no favours in the long run.

[R1Geezer]

Right you've had lots of chances to answer, I can only assume you accept that the soldiers in this situation had to defend theselves but seem incapable of saying so and tend to go with the "they shouldn't have been there" argument rather than accepting that rightly or wrongly they are there. Ever considered a career in politics Gromit?

[Gromit]

I am assuming you did not see my answer above yours as I have not avoided your question at all but answer it 3 times..

A question for you Geezer.

Do you agree it was a botched operation by the Israelis?

[R1Geezer]

You have not answered my question. What should the soldiers have done against the 500 strong baying mob? 10 of them where injured as it was.

No I do not agree it was a botched operation, they are enforcing a blockade, do you expect them to say, "oh all right just this time then" they boarded a hostile ship and had to defend their own lives, I suppose they could have used the old fashioned way and blown it out of the water. but they didn't.

If you put your hand in the fire do not be surprised if you get burnt.

[sp1814]

"You have not answered my question. What should the soldiers have done against the 500 strong baying mob?"

Where did you read that 500 civvies took up arms against the soldiers?

It's easy to take over a ship with a small well-armed contingent.

Perhaps the Isrealis need to pop over to Somali to get advice from pirates?

[Gromit]

Irrespective of whether they should have been there or not, the Israeli soldiers respose was disproportionate.

When a British Policeman confronts someone with a knife or stick, they use mace, tazors, CS Gas and their truncheons. It seems to be very effective and usually no one dies. The Israelis could also have used tear gas and rubber bullets.

But it is easier just to kill lots of people - that sends out a message.

[Lonnie]

Before anyone remarks on the link below, read it in its entirety, and if you any of the points made can be disproved, please comment.

http://www.honestrepo..._Anti-Israel_Wave.asp

[jno]

I've read that through, Lonnie, and it certainly puts one side of the story. But it doesn't seem to me to answer the charge of 'disproportionate response', which is one all too often levelled at Israeli military action. For instance, have a look at this estimate of Gaza casualties:

http://en.wikipedia.o...i/Gaza_War#Casualties

No doubt the figures can never be accurate, but taking the B'Tselem figures (they're an Israeli group), it's Palestinians 1385, Israelis 13 - that's 100 to 1, which is pretty shocking. After the assassination of Heydrich the Nazis killed 192 people from Lidice, the village one of the assassins apparently came from; and that remains a landmark atrocity. And yet the proportion of the death tolls I quoted above are not so very far removed. The Israelis can protest all they want about crowbars, but they won't be able to overcome people's instant reaction that they simply didn't need to go in and shoot protesters.