ChatterBank4 mins ago
Dating pictures Part 2
Does anyone have any idea when this was taken
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n12zp.jpg
Any ideas welcome!
TIA
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n12zp.jpg
Any ideas welcome!
TIA
Answers
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1890, only the groom seems to have a hat, yhe grooms mother is a widow, the children are probably from their first marriages. The very tall person at the back dressed in white looks foreign which may explain the dark skinned girl sitting front right, the gtoom and the guy standing with the cigar are probably brothers, the man on the right has his watch out or some reason! Can't tell what the brides grandmother? is holding but it might be a flower. In all they look an odd bunch and it almost looks artificial!
lol they ARE a strange group! (after all they are related to me).
This is what I know: The chap standing in the middle of the bride and groom immediately behind them is my g g grandfather (he is the hero of his own story, which I'll post later). He had five children. 3 boys - Alfred, Edwin Ernest and Fred Herbert and two daughters, Sarah Elizabeth and Emily. The lady next to the bride is his wife (I know this because I have another "family group" photo taken in their garden in Peterborough).
The children got married in the following years:-
Alfred married 1883
Edwin married 1888
Fred married 1899
Sarah Elizabeth married 1898
Emily married 1896
Edwin and Fred both married in London whereas the others all married in Peterborough (where the family lived). Thus I think it is either Alfred or Sarah E or Emily's wedding - although the family could well have travelled to London, they certainly had the funds to do so. It can't be Alfred because the two girls at the front are his (again they appear on the family group). Plus I think that Alfred and his wife are the couple right at the back.
I think the chap in the tweed is the grooms' brother.
Chap on the right does look foreign, but there is no foreign blood in the family. So the little girl at the front really intrigues me - she definitely looks foreign.
I should scan the other pic I have of them in and see if comparisons can be made. I've looked at the bloody things so much, I have lost all impartiality!
This is what I know: The chap standing in the middle of the bride and groom immediately behind them is my g g grandfather (he is the hero of his own story, which I'll post later). He had five children. 3 boys - Alfred, Edwin Ernest and Fred Herbert and two daughters, Sarah Elizabeth and Emily. The lady next to the bride is his wife (I know this because I have another "family group" photo taken in their garden in Peterborough).
The children got married in the following years:-
Alfred married 1883
Edwin married 1888
Fred married 1899
Sarah Elizabeth married 1898
Emily married 1896
Edwin and Fred both married in London whereas the others all married in Peterborough (where the family lived). Thus I think it is either Alfred or Sarah E or Emily's wedding - although the family could well have travelled to London, they certainly had the funds to do so. It can't be Alfred because the two girls at the front are his (again they appear on the family group). Plus I think that Alfred and his wife are the couple right at the back.
I think the chap in the tweed is the grooms' brother.
Chap on the right does look foreign, but there is no foreign blood in the family. So the little girl at the front really intrigues me - she definitely looks foreign.
I should scan the other pic I have of them in and see if comparisons can be made. I've looked at the bloody things so much, I have lost all impartiality!
This is gg grandpa John's story.
Born in 1830, the son of a Chelsea Pensioner, he started life as an agricultural labourer. When the railway came to Peterborough he found work there working first of all in the building of the Great Northern Hotel (where he helped dig out the cellars) and then in the GNR Loco works at New England. In 1856 he was involved in an accident where his left arm was caught in some belting and he was hoisted up to the ceiling. He was freed and the surgeons tried to save his arm, but alas they could not. The GNR Loco works paid a small levy to those injured and John received a few shillings "compensation". He bought a shop. Obviously having a brain, he studied the property market so then he bought a house and rented it out. Then another, then another. By the time he died in 1913 he was the largest private rate payer in Peterborough. He literally owned whole streets. He was well known locally and always seen in a frock coat, top hat and with his cigar and was known as "from sweep to mayor". He was known as a generous and kind landlord and never forgot his roots. Every time there was some major event, he was asked for his views by the local press (so I have loads of cuttings from interviews). His third son, Fred was my great grandfather. His daughter Sarah, had a tragic time, marrying in 1898 the heir to the brickworks and then being widowed only 4 months later.
I am, however sure, that Grandpa John had no idea that his son Fred was marrying the daughter of a 5x bigamist!!!!!!
Born in 1830, the son of a Chelsea Pensioner, he started life as an agricultural labourer. When the railway came to Peterborough he found work there working first of all in the building of the Great Northern Hotel (where he helped dig out the cellars) and then in the GNR Loco works at New England. In 1856 he was involved in an accident where his left arm was caught in some belting and he was hoisted up to the ceiling. He was freed and the surgeons tried to save his arm, but alas they could not. The GNR Loco works paid a small levy to those injured and John received a few shillings "compensation". He bought a shop. Obviously having a brain, he studied the property market so then he bought a house and rented it out. Then another, then another. By the time he died in 1913 he was the largest private rate payer in Peterborough. He literally owned whole streets. He was well known locally and always seen in a frock coat, top hat and with his cigar and was known as "from sweep to mayor". He was known as a generous and kind landlord and never forgot his roots. Every time there was some major event, he was asked for his views by the local press (so I have loads of cuttings from interviews). His third son, Fred was my great grandfather. His daughter Sarah, had a tragic time, marrying in 1898 the heir to the brickworks and then being widowed only 4 months later.
I am, however sure, that Grandpa John had no idea that his son Fred was marrying the daughter of a 5x bigamist!!!!!!
You mean the 5x bigamist?! She was funny. My uncle (now sadly departed) was a bit up himself and used to tell the story of how there was a rumour in the family that his grandmother was the daughter of a french countess. Was she hell!!!
Joyce was the daughter of a farmer from Peterborough. She married a school teacher who was born locally in St Pancras (why do I have SO many marriages in St Pancras when none of them lived in London?!) in 1870. They had two children a boy and a girl. The girl married Fred from the post above ^^^^^^^. There is then a gap in the child bearing and in the census of 1881 Joyce is living apart from the family. By 1991 she is back. Two further children follow, Arthur and Amelia. By 1901 though her husband is alone. Probably cos Joyce has naffed off to Windsor and married a soldier 20 years her junior (lying about her age and her marital status in the process). Not sure what happened to the solidier but 18 months later Joyce appears in Yorkshire in Sculcoates and marries a factory owner. Again not sure what happens to him, but then Joyce appears in Notts and marries again. That hubby, I think dies. She next appears in Boston in Lincs where she marries in 1899 to a coal merchant. In 1900 her hubby gets wise to the fact that Joyce obviously had a wedding cake fetish and divorces her - seeking custody of the youngest child at the same time. He names hubbys 2 and 4 as co-respondents. She marries again in 1900 to the same guy she married in 1899 although this time it may well have been legal. Despite 5 husbands, Joyce died in the workhouse in 1917. I doubt she knew that her daughter had made a very good marriage and was living in relative comfort on an estate in the country. I doubt she knew her son was doing well as a chemist in London. I have no idea what happened to her other children though.
Joyce was the daughter of a farmer from Peterborough. She married a school teacher who was born locally in St Pancras (why do I have SO many marriages in St Pancras when none of them lived in London?!) in 1870. They had two children a boy and a girl. The girl married Fred from the post above ^^^^^^^. There is then a gap in the child bearing and in the census of 1881 Joyce is living apart from the family. By 1991 she is back. Two further children follow, Arthur and Amelia. By 1901 though her husband is alone. Probably cos Joyce has naffed off to Windsor and married a soldier 20 years her junior (lying about her age and her marital status in the process). Not sure what happened to the solidier but 18 months later Joyce appears in Yorkshire in Sculcoates and marries a factory owner. Again not sure what happens to him, but then Joyce appears in Notts and marries again. That hubby, I think dies. She next appears in Boston in Lincs where she marries in 1899 to a coal merchant. In 1900 her hubby gets wise to the fact that Joyce obviously had a wedding cake fetish and divorces her - seeking custody of the youngest child at the same time. He names hubbys 2 and 4 as co-respondents. She marries again in 1900 to the same guy she married in 1899 although this time it may well have been legal. Despite 5 husbands, Joyce died in the workhouse in 1917. I doubt she knew that her daughter had made a very good marriage and was living in relative comfort on an estate in the country. I doubt she knew her son was doing well as a chemist in London. I have no idea what happened to her other children though.
Interestingly, that particular family were not opposed to scandal. Joyce's brother cleared off to the states leaving his wife and two daughters to make his fortune. Unfortunately, he met a rather sticky end in being shot. His lover one Nellie Bailey was tried and acquitted of his murder. It was said at the time that she collected lovers like firemen collected helmets!!!
It's definitely before 1909Tambo cos grandpa John died in 1913 and his wife in 1909 so it must predate 1909.
Dot - I hadn't thought of that (you might have thought a wills and probate specialist would have)! I never thought to check their wills. She certainly wasn't well off when she died though because she spent the last few years in the workhouse.
Tbh, I was amazed that when I got married I didn't have to prove who I was at all. The local vicar just took it at face value! The same thing has happened with my bfs family, we've got at least two bigamists there (the scottish divorce records are so much easier to access than they are here).
Dot - I hadn't thought of that (you might have thought a wills and probate specialist would have)! I never thought to check their wills. She certainly wasn't well off when she died though because she spent the last few years in the workhouse.
Tbh, I was amazed that when I got married I didn't have to prove who I was at all. The local vicar just took it at face value! The same thing has happened with my bfs family, we've got at least two bigamists there (the scottish divorce records are so much easier to access than they are here).
wow! blow me, I've just found a whole book on the internet about Nellie Bailey and my ggg uncle!!!!!!
http://ia341214.us.ar...fnelliecbai00jack.pdf
Downloadable too - guess I shan't get much done tomorrow!!!!!
http://ia341214.us.ar...fnelliecbai00jack.pdf
Downloadable too - guess I shan't get much done tomorrow!!!!!
What a great story and a lovely photo. I can't improve on the dating of it, but I would like to comment that the gentleman on the right, with the watch, looks very like my great-grandfather. I can't think that it is, because his family were very much based in Bristol and Somerset (long line of ag labs). The gent is not necessarily foreign, therefore! As to the watch, I think the photographer gave instructions to that line to hold something because it makes for a tidier picture if the hands are occupied, or at least uniformly positioned, and his hand mirrors the position of the hand of the gentleman on the left. I would also hazard a guess that if the photographer said the group would have to remain motionless for x number of minutes, there's bound to be one joker in the pack who would time it and start the banter after the prescribed time...
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