ChatterBank4 mins ago
Are NY Muslims being deliberately provocative ?
I have had this article sent to me from NY which should be of interest to ABers . It concerns the wish of Muslims to build a Mosque on the site of Ground Zero.
This article is written by two liberal Muslim Canadians who consider it to be deliberatively provocative.
I know this is US rather than UK but being as we have also suffered at the hands of extremists I can well imagine similar requests being made here.
http://www.ottawaciti...an/3370303/story.html
This article is written by two liberal Muslim Canadians who consider it to be deliberatively provocative.
I know this is US rather than UK but being as we have also suffered at the hands of extremists I can well imagine similar requests being made here.
http://www.ottawaciti...an/3370303/story.html
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Kromovaracun
/// "The attack on the World Trade Centre was by terrorists, not by the muslim religion ///
So it was just a coincident that the terrorists happened to be Muslims also? Mmmm.
It could also be possible that some of those Muslims that died that day, were also terrorists, potential terrorists, or suicide bombers, how does one not know?
/// "The attack on the World Trade Centre was by terrorists, not by the muslim religion ///
So it was just a coincident that the terrorists happened to be Muslims also? Mmmm.
It could also be possible that some of those Muslims that died that day, were also terrorists, potential terrorists, or suicide bombers, how does one not know?
modeller
// I didn't notice any outward signs of Islam . So I'm surprised they would even need a Mosque in the area //
My (incomplete) list of muslims who perished in the twin towers were New Yorkers. Where do imagine they worshiped? By the way, NY is probably one of the most multicultural cities on earth.
// I didn't notice any outward signs of Islam . So I'm surprised they would even need a Mosque in the area //
My (incomplete) list of muslims who perished in the twin towers were New Yorkers. Where do imagine they worshiped? By the way, NY is probably one of the most multicultural cities on earth.
AOG - your logic is entirely flawed in your point - 'so it was just a coincidence that the terrorists happened to be Muslims also?"
The terrorists were terrorists - not Muslims - because they nominally follow a faith does not make them examples of the cutting edge of their faith. using that liogic, Nazis who were nominally Christians extrapolates into the notion that Christians are Nazis.
It simply does not hold up.
The terrorists were terrorists - not Muslims - because they nominally follow a faith does not make them examples of the cutting edge of their faith. using that liogic, Nazis who were nominally Christians extrapolates into the notion that Christians are Nazis.
It simply does not hold up.
AOG,
I did say it is disgusting that you label those victims of 911 as the enemy, so it is I shouldn't really be surprised by your followup,
// It could also be possible that some of those Muslims that died that day, were also terrorists, potential terrorists, or suicide bombers, how does one not know? //
It could be that any one of the 2,752 victims of 911 were terrorists. But to suggest such a thing would really be very abhorrent and the work of a deeply paranoid individual.
I did say it is disgusting that you label those victims of 911 as the enemy, so it is I shouldn't really be surprised by your followup,
// It could also be possible that some of those Muslims that died that day, were also terrorists, potential terrorists, or suicide bombers, how does one not know? //
It could be that any one of the 2,752 victims of 911 were terrorists. But to suggest such a thing would really be very abhorrent and the work of a deeply paranoid individual.
My knowledge of NY is not good enough to answer your following question :
# My (incomplete) list of muslims who perished in the twin towers were New Yorkers. Where do imagine they worshiped? #
But this was publised in ' The American Thinker ' which may give an answer :
//Furthermore, it is not as if there are no Islamic centers of worship in New York City. The Islamic Society-Mid Manhattan is located on 55th Street. On the google map page there is an additional listing of nearby places of Islamic interest. Then there is the Islamic Cultural Center of New York on Third Avenue which caters to the Upper East Side and then there is the Assata Islamic Center at 172 Allen Street in lower Manhattan.//
Your second point #( NY is probably one of the most multicultural cities on earth. # ) may be right but I didn't find it so . Certainly not compared to London where English is becoming a foreign language.
# My (incomplete) list of muslims who perished in the twin towers were New Yorkers. Where do imagine they worshiped? #
But this was publised in ' The American Thinker ' which may give an answer :
//Furthermore, it is not as if there are no Islamic centers of worship in New York City. The Islamic Society-Mid Manhattan is located on 55th Street. On the google map page there is an additional listing of nearby places of Islamic interest. Then there is the Islamic Cultural Center of New York on Third Avenue which caters to the Upper East Side and then there is the Assata Islamic Center at 172 Allen Street in lower Manhattan.//
Your second point #( NY is probably one of the most multicultural cities on earth. # ) may be right but I didn't find it so . Certainly not compared to London where English is becoming a foreign language.
"It could also be possible that some of those Muslims that died that day, were also terrorists, potential terrorists, or suicide bombers, how does one not know? "
For one thing, you're not addressing me - you're addressing Gromit, who I was quoting. I was trying to explain what he was saying because you didn't seem to get it.
For another, to answer your question: probability. I count 39 people on the list Gromit gave. Generally, if you randomly pick 39 Muslims, the likelihood of them being active terrorists is vanishingly small (in fact the likelihood is they'll be Asian). It's only if your prejudiced (or paranoid) that every Muslim becomes a likely suicide bomber.
As for being 'potential' terrorists - literally every human being whose physically capable could be a 'potential' terrorist. Killers are cut from exactly the same material that everyone else is - even the most basic glance through criminology research can tell you that.
Finally, I have to say that you don't come across as having much sympathy for Muslims who were killed in the 9/11 attack. Just saying.
For one thing, you're not addressing me - you're addressing Gromit, who I was quoting. I was trying to explain what he was saying because you didn't seem to get it.
For another, to answer your question: probability. I count 39 people on the list Gromit gave. Generally, if you randomly pick 39 Muslims, the likelihood of them being active terrorists is vanishingly small (in fact the likelihood is they'll be Asian). It's only if your prejudiced (or paranoid) that every Muslim becomes a likely suicide bomber.
As for being 'potential' terrorists - literally every human being whose physically capable could be a 'potential' terrorist. Killers are cut from exactly the same material that everyone else is - even the most basic glance through criminology research can tell you that.
Finally, I have to say that you don't come across as having much sympathy for Muslims who were killed in the 9/11 attack. Just saying.
AOG
Please list the London boroughs where the rise in immigrants means that English is becoming a 'foreign language'.
You're having an appalling run lately. Get some Guardian-reading in, to counter the mess the Daily Mail has made of you.
If The Guardian is a step too far - try the Telegraph. It's actually a rather good read.
Please list the London boroughs where the rise in immigrants means that English is becoming a 'foreign language'.
You're having an appalling run lately. Get some Guardian-reading in, to counter the mess the Daily Mail has made of you.
If The Guardian is a step too far - try the Telegraph. It's actually a rather good read.
sp1814 You are rather lacking in empathy . Lighten up . Can't you tell when something is a figure of speech ?
I was in Brent with some American friends and one of them made that remark as a joke which you obviously can't see.
However as a point of interest I checked up on Brent and here is the result. # In Brent, the proportion of people born outside the EU has increased from 31 per cent in 1991 to 38 per cent in 2001. Two other London boroughs have seen large rises in the proportion of people born outside the EU: Newham from 25 per cent in 1991 to 36 per cent and Harrow from 20 per cent to 28 per cent.#
That was 9 years ago I think even you can imagine the situation today. So I feel the jokey remark still has some validity .
I was in Brent with some American friends and one of them made that remark as a joke which you obviously can't see.
However as a point of interest I checked up on Brent and here is the result. # In Brent, the proportion of people born outside the EU has increased from 31 per cent in 1991 to 38 per cent in 2001. Two other London boroughs have seen large rises in the proportion of people born outside the EU: Newham from 25 per cent in 1991 to 36 per cent and Harrow from 20 per cent to 28 per cent.#
That was 9 years ago I think even you can imagine the situation today. So I feel the jokey remark still has some validity .
sp1814 I know how important it is to you and the fact you even used the word ' please'
# Please list the London boroughs where the rise in immigrants means that English is becoming a 'foreign language'.#
I thought you would dearly like the figures for Southall and Ealing London boroughs. In 2001 55% of the residents did not speak English as their first language.
If you like I'II get on to their town halls to find the increase over the past 9 years if I can speak to someone who speaks English that I can understand.
# Please list the London boroughs where the rise in immigrants means that English is becoming a 'foreign language'.#
I thought you would dearly like the figures for Southall and Ealing London boroughs. In 2001 55% of the residents did not speak English as their first language.
If you like I'II get on to their town halls to find the increase over the past 9 years if I can speak to someone who speaks English that I can understand.
sp1814 As promised I rang the councils but no one was available who I could understand but the Southall web site shows today only 37% of their population are white English. I'm sure you will find the site interesting if not to your satisfaction.
Purely as a point of interest several of my Pakistani neighbours also work in those areas . I get on well with them and they use English when speaking to me. Amongst themselves its mainly Urdu, Punjabi and Gujarat
ww.thesouthallstory.com/the-people/
Purely as a point of interest several of my Pakistani neighbours also work in those areas . I get on well with them and they use English when speaking to me. Amongst themselves its mainly Urdu, Punjabi and Gujarat
ww.thesouthallstory.com/the-people/
I feel I have to mention this, as many non-muslims have no clue on this.
It states, in the koran itself;
"No muslim shall live in a non-muslim country."
So why are they coming over here and the U.S. and demanding their rights like building mosques, slaughtering animals in a vicious manner (contrary to our animal rights laws) and making non-muslim children eat halal and study koran in CofE schools?
I'll tell you why, they are pushy, manipulative and will use anything they know about you to use it against you - mostly (but priority for) monetry gain.
Always be suspicious of them. I've had unfortunate dealings with many of them throughout my life. Be very aware if they start being nice to you all of a sudden - they are after something; may it be your job, money, or in the case of young women, your house AND money.
Tell them NOTHING about yourself or your personal life and have as little contact with them as possible. I read the koran purely to 'know thine enemy'. When they start preaching the ways of allah on our streets I have great comebacks for them. (It doesn't shut them up, they try to get out of not answering and shout a lot in retaliation.)
A lot of the so called professional muslims have been found to be bogus and bought forged certificates too.
Please be very careful. They have ulterior motives which are always very much in their own favour. I don't care how peaceful they say they are. Their religion is not based on peace. Read the koran, you will see for yourself.
It states, in the koran itself;
"No muslim shall live in a non-muslim country."
So why are they coming over here and the U.S. and demanding their rights like building mosques, slaughtering animals in a vicious manner (contrary to our animal rights laws) and making non-muslim children eat halal and study koran in CofE schools?
I'll tell you why, they are pushy, manipulative and will use anything they know about you to use it against you - mostly (but priority for) monetry gain.
Always be suspicious of them. I've had unfortunate dealings with many of them throughout my life. Be very aware if they start being nice to you all of a sudden - they are after something; may it be your job, money, or in the case of young women, your house AND money.
Tell them NOTHING about yourself or your personal life and have as little contact with them as possible. I read the koran purely to 'know thine enemy'. When they start preaching the ways of allah on our streets I have great comebacks for them. (It doesn't shut them up, they try to get out of not answering and shout a lot in retaliation.)
A lot of the so called professional muslims have been found to be bogus and bought forged certificates too.
Please be very careful. They have ulterior motives which are always very much in their own favour. I don't care how peaceful they say they are. Their religion is not based on peace. Read the koran, you will see for yourself.
OldCrone
Have you thought about the practicality of what you're saying? Really?
Think - for what you're saying to be true, a vast global conspiracy numbering billions of people would have to be in seamless operation, with members craftily disguising themselves and masquerading as neighbours and friends, while deviously plotting society's downfall across numerous generation.
Doesn't that just seem a bit melodramatic? Hasn't history taught us that such theories or images are invariably grossly impractical and frequently trumped-up or wrong?
Compare your image, for instance, with what we as westerners know for sure about how people relate to organised religion. Because we're westerners, most of it comes what we know about how Christians relate to their religion. What's regularly been observed is that Christians who are born into their faith frequently just explain away the nastier, sillier, or harder to explain parts of the bible just so they can keep living the way they have been. If you think about it from a psychological perspective, it's really easy to see why that happens and how easily it would and does happen.
Isn't it just more logical to assume that, given that we know this is by and large a very standard thing in organised religions from our own study of our human experience as a civilisation, that it's probably the prevailing trend in Islam too? Isn't it paranoid to assume that anyone you meet who you think might be Muslim (after all, how do you identify one?) is actively plotting your downfall?
Have you thought about the practicality of what you're saying? Really?
Think - for what you're saying to be true, a vast global conspiracy numbering billions of people would have to be in seamless operation, with members craftily disguising themselves and masquerading as neighbours and friends, while deviously plotting society's downfall across numerous generation.
Doesn't that just seem a bit melodramatic? Hasn't history taught us that such theories or images are invariably grossly impractical and frequently trumped-up or wrong?
Compare your image, for instance, with what we as westerners know for sure about how people relate to organised religion. Because we're westerners, most of it comes what we know about how Christians relate to their religion. What's regularly been observed is that Christians who are born into their faith frequently just explain away the nastier, sillier, or harder to explain parts of the bible just so they can keep living the way they have been. If you think about it from a psychological perspective, it's really easy to see why that happens and how easily it would and does happen.
Isn't it just more logical to assume that, given that we know this is by and large a very standard thing in organised religions from our own study of our human experience as a civilisation, that it's probably the prevailing trend in Islam too? Isn't it paranoid to assume that anyone you meet who you think might be Muslim (after all, how do you identify one?) is actively plotting your downfall?
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