The Oxford Comma

[Chapel]

discuss.

[Quizmonkey]

I'm a great supporter of the Oxford comma - as a basic aid to comprehension and clarity, if nothing else. I'm sure the anti-brigade who start quoting antedeluvian 'rules' such as "You can't have a comma before and" (and "You can't start a sentence with and") are remembering vaguely what teachers spouted in their childhood - and not understanding the grammatical issues at all.

[Chapel]

I'm with you on this one.

[georgit79]

umm, it's nice, isn't it? What is it, exactly?

[Quizmonkey]

It's a comma inserted before the last item of a where you wouldn't normally expect to see one - and it's used when the list contains grammatically complex items.

So you'd normally write: The fruit bowl contained an apple, a pear and a banana. (no comma after pear) - which is correct.

But compare: The guests included a duke and his wife, a teacher and his sons, and an actor and his girlfriend. (that comma after sons is an Oxford comma!!). See how easier it makes the sentence to understand.

[Quizmonkey]

Sorry - the word 'list' mysteriously disappeared from the first line of that post!

[vespaboy]

You've got little in life to worry you if you think this is important!

Shouldn't duke be Duke?

[Quizmonkey]

Well, you must think grammar and orthography are important as you conform to all the rules in your post!

And it would only be Duke if it were a specific one named (eg, the Duke of York).

[gen2]

I didn't know it was called an 'Oxford comma' but I use commas in lists exactly as Quizmonkey describes.  I explained this recently (not on AB) using a similar list.
The sandwiches offered by the snack bar included cheese and tomato, ham and cheese, and tuna and sweetcorn.

The main purpose of punctuation is to clarify meaning and the 'Oxford comma' certainly does that.

[woofgang]

thanks georgit, i was about to ask that too. Anybody know why its an "oxford" comma?

PS and to think that there is a post in chatterbank saying that this place is going downhill!

[gen2]

I found a website that claimed the origin ot the term was from its use by 'The Oxford University Press' and its staff.  It also stated that in the USofA it is sometimes known as the 'Harvard Comma'.

[rabet]

It is also known as a 'serial' comma. I occasionally do some work for American publishers and they insist on its use even when the list consists of simple one-word items. I find this rather annoying.

[Xollob]

Excellent article on the serial comma here. With regard to comprehensibility, there are arguments for and against it. For complex lists I can see the benefits, but for simple lists it gets up my nose.

I like the following example from the Wikipedia article, which actually creates the ambiguity the serial comma is supposed to prevent:

"They went to Oregon with Betty, a cow, and a piano."

[Quizmonkey]

I like it! Strictly speaking, in UK English anyway, there is no ambiguity there: all it can mean is that Betty is a cow (and not Betty AND a cow). I agree it must be annoying if publishers insist on it in simple-item lists too.