Rape within marrige?

[anotheoldgit]

http://tinyurl.com/39gzvn5

'No such thing as rape within marriage', well that is according to this Extreme/moderate, (what the hell take your pick), Muslim.

Agree or disagree?

[naomi24]

If Muslims want Sharia courts to operate in this country, ultimately those courts must abide by the law of the land. We cannot have one rule for one and a different rule for another. Whoever is doing the raping and whoever is being raped, rape is violation and this man is totally and utterly wrong.

[mike11111]

I'm glad that Barmaid has highlighted the issue of intent. At the risk of being boring can I point out that all crimes, apart from those of strict liability (e.g. parking on double yellow lines) require two elements: the Actus Reus (the guilty deed) and the Mens Rea (the guilty intention). When I studied law I remember that for theft to be proved there had to be three elements to the Actus Reus and two to the Mens Rea. If any one of those elements was missing, the person was not guilty. The lawyers had a field day!

[123everton]

Erm AOG, we weren't civilised in the treatment of our subjects, Croke Park Massacre ring any bells?
Would you like you like me to tell you a story from the Second Anglo Boer War of how we behaved?
I love my country as much as anyone, and as much as any other country, but no more and no less than I love humanity, all humanity. It is not patriotism to gloss over unpalatable events in our history (you wouldn't suffer such an oversight from the Germans) it's called stupidity.
I'm wholly against Sharia courts operating in this country with any form of legal basis, it seems to work in Malaysia, but I'm against it here. I don't think in the unhappy event that Sharia courts gained recognition in this country that cases such as rape would fall under it's remit.

[fredpuli47]

Well, we true patriots can be proud of the fact that we've been civilized since 1991 , when it became law here that a husband could rape his wife, can't we AOG ? We've also changed the law about a woman not testifying against her husband, and, as we see from other posts on AB, the practice in prosecuting cases of domestic violence has been changed so complainants who suddenly say they don't want to go on still have their cases proceeded with.

Is anybody suggesting that this cleric's judicial interpretation of his religion's teaching will override the law of the land? In a sense it might, as set out below.

In practice there could be evidential difficulties with cases involving ethnic and religious minorities. When 'asian' communities were first here, years ago, they often tried to settle cases of assault by a meeting of elders who determined what sum the attacker's family would pay the victim,rather than involve the police and criminal courts. You'd suddenly find that the police had victims and witnesses who didn't want to pursue because the case was being settled in this way.Only if the case was very serious (or perhaps the 'damages' weren't adequate !) did it end up being tried.

Cultural or religious practice and belief might lead to a Moslem woman not reporting rape by her husband. If she's taught that it's not rape, why would she?

[Scylax]

Of course, even within the confines of the law, it is recognized that a woman who willfully and deliberately puts herself at risk may find a judge ruling that she herself was partly contributory to the offence. Logically, anyone who disregards the rule that one should never put oneself into common danger. Example: what was that woman doing in MIke Tyson's hotel bedroom at 2 a.m., knowing full well his reputation and criminal record ? Was Tyson solely to blame ? Or was she aiming at making $1m. by suing him for the 'rape' she hoped would occur ?

[boxtops]

This is one cleric making a statement but other clerics may make different statements on the same topic. Any cleric in Islam can make prounouncements but there is no Head Honcho to whom everyone else will listen. Any woman may bring a claim of rape to the courts under UK law, but as has been said, culturally they may fear to - how many indigenous white British women often don't report rape out of fear. In a religious upbringing where sex outside marriage is looked on with disgust (and don't forget that it's not that many years ago since unmarried people here couldn't obtain contraception or had to give up illegitimate children), the desire to keep sex within marriage is not a bad one - but in the cultures where people who don't know each other have arranged marriages, you might end up with a partner you can't stand or who has disgusting habits. I don't condone rape under any circumstances but there is a cultural possibility that this is just seen as the man exerting his rights.

[anotheoldgit]

Scylax

That Tyson case was a good point, but no matter how much a male is egged on by the female, and some do a pretty good job.

There has to be a cut-off point, no matter how far advanced the proceedings have taken place, and that is, when the woman says 'NO' then that has got to mean no.