Will the extremists be prosecuted for offence?

[Loosehead]

Well while the rest of us were having 2 minutes silence, our muslim friends were burning poppies, wonderful eh? The rest of us get harranged and prosecuted for the slightest offence. Will the purpetrators now be arrested and charged?

[Gromit]

Stokemaveric,

You would make the same mistake as the idiots in Kensington. You might be justified in trying to offend those 12 wallys, and I'm sure burning the Koran would upset them. Unfortunately, you would also offend 1,599,988 muslims who made no offensive gestures today.

[123everton]

As I said in another thread, these people are activists, it's their job, their aim to court a violent reaction, that's how they gain strength.
Gromit's right in what he says, we won't defeat extremism by becoming extremists.

[ludwig]

Gromit, make that 1,599,987. One of them gave me the w&nker sign when I cut him up on the M1 this morning.

[jno]

ludwig, what difference does being a 'joke' make, apart from giving the 'joker' deniability? ('Just an ill-advised attempt at humour'.) He will doubtless argue that he didn't expect anyone to go out and stone Ms Alibhai-Brown. The protesters will also say they didn't expect anyone to go out and shoot a soldier. In both cases they will be correct; nobody did either of these things. So they are equally objectionable (very) and equally inflammatory (not much),

[ludwig]

What are you suggesting, that he seriously would like to see the woman stoned to death? - but thought 'hang on - that might get me into trouble, so I'll phrase it like a joke so I've got deniability?'

There really is no comparison between the two things. Anyway, did the protestors actually call for anyone to be killed? They're not stupid - if you look at the placards they're very careful not to actually incite violence, which is why they say things like 'Allah likes us but not you', and 'soldiers burn in hell', and 'Afghanistan is better than Britain, but I don't want to live there' - none of which actually calls for anyone to be killed.

[ludwig]

..which of course is the irony of the whole thing.
He's an idiot who's called for someone's death in a jokey manner, not meant it, but got into trouble for saying it because he's stupid.
They would seriously love it if lots of people died, but because they're not idiots they've been very careful to avoid saying it, and consequently aren't in any trouble.

[Gromit]

You've got it in one Ludwig.

They are not in trouble because they didn't say anything.

And you cannot prosecute anyone for what YOU think they might be thinking.

[jno]

apologies for the delay in responding, ludwig, my computer is crashing every five minutes and I am about ready to drop it off Beachy Head. Yes, basically, Gromit's given my answer. Joking/seriousness has nothing to do with it; that shouldn't be the basis for comparison in law, however much difference it might make to you or me. If you say something seriously inflammatory (not just objectionable but likely to endanger people in short order) you may find free speech doesn't cover it. If you don't, you should be in the clear. The protesters didn't say anything that endangered the peace, however much they may have intended to outrage. I'm inclined to think the MP didn't either and expect him not to come to court. I think he's a fool but I'd be surprised if he was a convicted fool.

[ludwig]

Yes, I'm not really disagreeing with anything you're saying there. My main point was in response to your comparison between the MP and the protestors which I thought was a bit silly, because (putting legalities aside for a second) it's obvious to anyone that his was a stupid off the cuff attempt at humor, but their sentiments are more seriously meant.
After all, they've spent time planning the demo and making placards - it seems alot of trouble for something they're not really that bothered about.

[naomi24]

//You've got it in one Ludwig. They are not in trouble because they didn't say anything.//

//The protesters didn't say anything that endangered the peace, however much they may have intended to outrage. //

What contradictory nonsense. They most certainly did say something, and if they intended to outrage, which they clearly did, their deliberate provocation has automatically endangered the peace. If it hadn't, people wouldn't be objecting and calling for retaliation. Make no mistake, they're bothered - and so should we be.

[ummmm]

Everton - do people wear poppies in Ireland?

Not that I have seen, but it's been a long time since I was back there at this time of year. I know plenty of Irish living in England that do though..

[lotsafun]

no they wont get prosecuted, because the prosecuters fear that they will be labled racist! Its a typical rule that they can do what they want and we have to let them isnt it. Personally ive always said if people want to live in britain, have british jobs, take our benefits and homes then they should live as a british citizen. They should learn to speak our language, go to OUR churches and not THERE mosques, live by OUR laws, and dress like us as in not wearing burkas etc.

[ummmm]

I agree that they should live by our laws. But go to OUR churches???? What Church would that be then?

[Zeuhl]

They can go to my church - I'm an atheist.
.

[VHG]

I have just visited someones facebook page where they are ranting about these Muslims burning a poppy.

Underneath this rant was a picture of a firework display they went to, where a guy was being burnt on the fire.

Of course, this guy represents a Catholic who tried to blow up parliament.

So one minute we are at public events happily burning an effigy of a catholic, next minute we are complaining about people burning poppies.

I just thought there was a nice touch of irony there.

[123everton]

I'd never thought of that VHG, excellent.

[Zeuhl]

An effigy of The Pope is burned on a bonfire every Nov 5 at Lewes, East Sussex

[beso]

Thirty-five protestors. Who cares?
Decent human beings now think of Armistice day for all those who died in war.

However I do acknowledge the invasion of Iraq was just another episode in a long history of exploitation of the region by the British and others. I can see why they are angry.

[beso]

Spot on, VHG

[ludwig]

// So one minute we are at public events happily burning an effigy of a catholic, next minute we are complaining about people burning poppies. //

I see what you mean VHG, but at our bonfire parties we don't brandish placards saying 'Catholics burn in hell' and 'God hates catholics' though. Also we don't stand in the garden shouting insults at the catholic family next door. It seems wrong, so we don't bother.