Crosswords2 mins ago
Is SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Life) a friutless approach?
Would anyone agree when I fear that SETI is barking up the wrong tree?
The search for other intelligences in the universe is limited exclusively to a radio search. I can't help feeling that modern astronomers are falling into the old trap of assuming that their science is very advanced, whereas radio technology is in fact young and basic. SETI is based on other intelligences also communicating in the radio spectrum so SETI astronomers must assume that other intelligences are just like!
There are people alive today who were born before Marconi sent his first radio message in 1901. If any alien observer had studied Earth at any time before then they would have found Earth to be radio dead. Yet Earth was teeming with life through the rise of plants, dinosaurs, the Roman Empire, the Victorian world with all it's advances in technology - but radio silent until 1901! It would have been wrong for those aliens to conclude that there could be no intelligent life on Earth - yet that is exactly the take of our astronomers today!
For that reason I think any other intelligence would probably be radio dead. All life forms would have developed in different directions so advanced forms similar to whales, apes and elephants on Earth wouldn't use radio. A more advanced intelligence would communicate with a technology far more advanced and we must have as much conception of their technology as the Greeks or Romans had of ours.
I just think that the modern SETI with radio telescopes is the wrong way to detect intelligent life on other worlds. That's why the radio astronomers keep reporting "No signals or replies yet!" I know there's no alternative - but radio is rather fruitless isn't it?
The search for other intelligences in the universe is limited exclusively to a radio search. I can't help feeling that modern astronomers are falling into the old trap of assuming that their science is very advanced, whereas radio technology is in fact young and basic. SETI is based on other intelligences also communicating in the radio spectrum so SETI astronomers must assume that other intelligences are just like!
There are people alive today who were born before Marconi sent his first radio message in 1901. If any alien observer had studied Earth at any time before then they would have found Earth to be radio dead. Yet Earth was teeming with life through the rise of plants, dinosaurs, the Roman Empire, the Victorian world with all it's advances in technology - but radio silent until 1901! It would have been wrong for those aliens to conclude that there could be no intelligent life on Earth - yet that is exactly the take of our astronomers today!
For that reason I think any other intelligence would probably be radio dead. All life forms would have developed in different directions so advanced forms similar to whales, apes and elephants on Earth wouldn't use radio. A more advanced intelligence would communicate with a technology far more advanced and we must have as much conception of their technology as the Greeks or Romans had of ours.
I just think that the modern SETI with radio telescopes is the wrong way to detect intelligent life on other worlds. That's why the radio astronomers keep reporting "No signals or replies yet!" I know there's no alternative - but radio is rather fruitless isn't it?
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Maybe we've a;ready received the first signal?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wow!_signal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wow!_signal
Geezer, you limit your intellect to your current knowledge. Technology progresses - and who's to say there will be a return journey anyway? Perhaps one of these days Star Trek will become a reality. How can you possibly say it won't? You can't, because you have no idea where science will take us or what the future holds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal
First link wasn't right.
First link wasn't right.
I think it is statistically very likely that life abounds in the Universe. We can only work with the technology we have, so I don't think it unreasonable to have a SETI programme. I would agree that the chances of picking up radio waves indicative of another advanced civilisation are small, largely because the window of opportunity is so narrow - as the OP suggested, for much of our history we have been "silent" - and additionally, we are going radio-quiet again with the increased use of cable, broadband, etc - so we have ourselves only been broadcasting for what? 60 years or so? - which is a sphere with a radius of 60 light years. On that basis I am not entirely suprised we haven't gathered any positive results to date - but that doesn't mean we won't in the future.
What we can then do in terms of engagement with such a hypothetical civilisation, given the problems posed by the distances, and our current understanding of the limitations imposed on both communication and travel by the fundamentals of physics is a different matter altogether..............
What we can then do in terms of engagement with such a hypothetical civilisation, given the problems posed by the distances, and our current understanding of the limitations imposed on both communication and travel by the fundamentals of physics is a different matter altogether..............
If the option is to not bother, then the cost of checking whatever you can, seems well worth it. To not do so seems similar to sticking your collective fingers in your ears to avoid knowing something, to me.
I suspect that should relatively intelligent life emerge elsewhere it is unlikely they'll not stumble across wireless communication, and even if they discover something better for communication later, will be aware of it's potential as a first contact channel and so check it and use it.
Yes given the vastness of space I'm inclined to think there are more "intelligent" lifeforms out there, but I'm also happy to play devil's advocate if appropriate, since we do seem to have a lot going for us here. Our planet's size, a large moon causing tides and stability, distance from a suitable star, a magnetic field to protect us, large possibly protective planets orbiting outside us, sufficient water from being bombarded early on, etc. etc. etc. It may just be a unique combination.
I suspect that should relatively intelligent life emerge elsewhere it is unlikely they'll not stumble across wireless communication, and even if they discover something better for communication later, will be aware of it's potential as a first contact channel and so check it and use it.
Yes given the vastness of space I'm inclined to think there are more "intelligent" lifeforms out there, but I'm also happy to play devil's advocate if appropriate, since we do seem to have a lot going for us here. Our planet's size, a large moon causing tides and stability, distance from a suitable star, a magnetic field to protect us, large possibly protective planets orbiting outside us, sufficient water from being bombarded early on, etc. etc. etc. It may just be a unique combination.
What if we are it? What if we are the only entity with some awareness of the vastness of the universe in which we have been bestowed the greatest of good fortune to know it. Would that knowledge give us any greater respect for our own existence knowing that we are the manifestation and stewards of the best this universe has to offer? I find that a frightening prospect.
Maths is the complete opposite of faith count, look up the drake equation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
this is about as far from religion as you can get.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
this is about as far from religion as you can get.
Count, //Collide / connect - just varying degrees of 'meet'. //
Yes, but not necessarily with the same result, and therefore potentially converse.
//belief is belief whether it's in god or mathematics.//
I disagree. Unlike God, mathematics carries with it a very reasonable element of substantiation.
Geezer, //this is about as far from religion as you can get. //
On the contrary. The Drake equation is about as close to religion as you can get - in my opinion.
Yes, but not necessarily with the same result, and therefore potentially converse.
//belief is belief whether it's in god or mathematics.//
I disagree. Unlike God, mathematics carries with it a very reasonable element of substantiation.
Geezer, //this is about as far from religion as you can get. //
On the contrary. The Drake equation is about as close to religion as you can get - in my opinion.
I do not believe that we will ever learn if there is other intelligent life out there. The existence of (supposedly) intelligent life on Earth is a mere flash in the existence of life on this planet. This makes contacting Aliens even more of a chance. Also, most of the universe is moving away from this galaxy at different speeds which makes contact even less likely.
I would support the thought that we may discover some type of life on close star systems but would we recognise it as life? It may indeed be very intelligent by remaining in a simple form and not destroy its own environment.
I would support the thought that we may discover some type of life on close star systems but would we recognise it as life? It may indeed be very intelligent by remaining in a simple form and not destroy its own environment.
Thank you for the answers everyone.
I agree that we have no other methods of searching for other intelligences at the moment. I have no doubt on the basis of probability that the universe is probably teeming with life. However, even if other intelligences are very similar to us what if they are on a par with the Roman Empire or 18th century Europe? Science and culture was very advanced by those times, yet they were 'radio dead'. I just think that to hope we can capture another intelligence's radio transmissions in the small window of opportunity LazyGun mentions is a very small hope indeed.
I agree that we have no other methods of searching for other intelligences at the moment. I have no doubt on the basis of probability that the universe is probably teeming with life. However, even if other intelligences are very similar to us what if they are on a par with the Roman Empire or 18th century Europe? Science and culture was very advanced by those times, yet they were 'radio dead'. I just think that to hope we can capture another intelligence's radio transmissions in the small window of opportunity LazyGun mentions is a very small hope indeed.
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