Is this practice widespread and is it irreverent?

[e.crespo]

I have just seen this article on the Mail web site: http://www.dailymail....ornaments-graves.html

I am slightly shocked, but should I be?
jj

[askyourgran]

One of the cemeteries in Leeds is vandalised regularly, Moslem and Hindu graves have also been targetted, and the childrens graves have had teddies and small items stolen too. There is no respect any more.

I have to admit I don't like roadside 'shrines' either. I think there should be a clear policy for all the councils concerning this

[sp1814]

Another point - when it rains or during period of heavy winds, all that stuff is going to go flying all over the place. Rather than looking like a shrine, it will make the surround plots look as if someone's just chucked a load of rubbish all over the place.

Not good.

[Ankou]

jno: "remind me not to be buried in Essex"

how very dare you!! my dads buried in essex, along with some of my grandparents. the cemetry where my dad is buried does have a few wind chimes atached to the trees, but i don't mind that too much as it doesn't impede, cheapen or lessen the tranqulity of the time i spend there contemplating.

however, in the instance of the article, i completely agree with the council. it will start to look like a landfill site soon enough.

[AB Editor]

Book Ends by Tony Harrison

I

Baked the day she suddenly dropped dead
we chew it slowly that last apple pie.

Shocked into sleeplessness you're scared of bed.
We never could talk much, and now don't try.

You're like book ends, the pair of you, she'd say,
Hog that grate, say nothing, sit, sleep, stare…

The 'scholar' me, you, worn out on poor pay,
only our silence made us seem a pair.

Not as good for staring in, blue gas,
too regular each bud, each yellow spike.

At night you need my company to pass
and she not here to tell us we're alike!

You're life's all shattered into smithereens.

Back in our silences and sullen looks,
for all the Scotch we drink, what's still between 's
not the thirty or so years, but books, books, books.

II

The stone's too full. The wording must be terse.
There's scarcely room to carve the FLORENCE on it--

Come on, it's not as if we're wanting verse.
It's not as if we're wanting a whole sonnet!

After tumblers of neat Johnny Walker
(I think that both of us we're on our third)
you said you'd always been a clumsy talker
and couldn't find another, shorter word
for 'beloved' or for 'wife' in the inscription,
but not too clumsy that you can't still cut:

You're supposed to be the bright boy at description
and you can't tell them what the flump to put!

I've got to find the right words on my own.

I've got the envelope that he'd been scrawling,
mis-spelt, mawkish, stylistically appalling
but I can't squeeze more love into their stone.

[AB Editor]

The above always pops into my head when I see this kind of thing.

The reason people create these kind of gaudy monuments is because they can't stand the idea of it all being the same as everyone else - after all weren't their loved ones special?

The second verse tell us that, even with "better words" (or in this case ornaments) will always feel a little... wrong... and that the simple and clear (albeit well used) words are actually all that can be used.

[Ankou]

i dunno ed. i think they just can't let go, like they are still grieving or still believe the departed person has presence. i bet most of the nick-nacks placed are for birthday, christmas, anniversaries etc.

its like the person that lays an extra place at dinner for a dead person (this happens apparently). i think if the council forced the removal of such things, then this should help them come to terms with their loss in the longer term.

[AB Editor]

Ankou, I have come to terms with bereavements in my life quicker/better because of the whole "They deserve better".

Sadly, dying is universal and there is almost nothing special about the gravestone. The places they loved & the earth they walked, the homes in which they lived, the things they did - these are all more valuable than the grave itself.

Pretty good Doc. How long have you know you wanted that?

Spare Ed

[AB Editor]

Of course Spike Milligan's "I Told Them I Was ill" is probably the best treatment for a stone.

[Ankou]

...and did he not also get his wish about harry secombe dying first so that he didn't have to hear him sing at his funeral.

[Bbbananas]

I like that Doc.

[jackthehat]

I'm sad to say that I have a 'cousin' a little like this...........
If she had her way I'm sure the 'family plot' would look something like this.
Despite the fact that the most recent person to be interred was planted a full 15 years *before* my cousin was born...........!!

[AB Editor]

I think it stems from an inability to articulate grief - which it turns out, is entirely natural.

[jno]

"The reason people create these kind of gaudy monuments is because they can't stand the idea of it all being the same as everyone else"

well, quite. But people used to treat death as a reminder that we *were* like everyone else - rich or poor, good or bad, we all end up dead.

If you want a shrine, build it at home, not on public ground. I don't know if Ankou has to push aside Postman Pats and balloons when he visits his father's grave; I'd prefer not to, myself. (Though I don't mind wind chimes.)

Doc, the No Les No Moore grave is in Tombstone; I've seen it. I think there's a grave of a man lynched by mistake too - "He was right, We was wrong, But we hung him just the same." There's also an "I told you I was ill" gravestone in Key West, older than Spike Milligan's, I think.

[joko]

i think they should be allowed the freedom to mourn in an individual way - but the fact that these graves are all so near to each other makes me think theres a ' keeping up with the jones' thing happening...as though they think that they must out do each other to prove who loved their child the most...that is stupid and the worng attitude to take

i think some personal, meaningfull toys and memrabilia is ok...but it seems these people are loading up on cheap tat, just to pile it on...the child proabably never even owned half the items...and one even appears to have duplicated toys just for some symmetry....

i dont really mind the wind chimes...but perhaps the limit of 2 each should be enforced more...

i am amazed people havent nicked half of the stuff too...

[joko]

also, if my child had died..i wouldnt care if others didnt like it...
its up to them really...
graveyards are not meant to be an 'atrraction', or have to look the way some feel appropriate, i.e, staid, grey, dull, neat with a bunch of flowers on...
if you dont like it - dont look

there are no rules to grief

[joko]

to claim these people dont care enough or have no respect because of this, is unfair...people are differnet, and what might be your idea of 'showing respect' ie, dressing in black, bowing your head, maybe crossing yourself, acting sombre etc, does not mean its the same for everyone...